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Too bad I had to excerpt the article. The entire article is excellent and should be read by anyone interested in immigration issues or the U.S. economy.
1 posted on 07/11/2005 7:19:00 PM PDT by bayourod
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To: bayourod

This is Mexico's Economic Developement Policy: send them here to they can mail their American wages back home. This way, the powers that be don't have to reform their corrupt ways.


2 posted on 07/11/2005 7:22:11 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued
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To: bayourod
A former adviser to President Bill Clinton and an early architect of the North American Development Bank, the principal financing institution for the North American Free Trade Act (NAFTA), Hinojosa argues immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries are the threads that inextricably knit the U.S. and its southern neighbors together -- and prop up a labor market desperate for cheap workers.

Indeed, Hinojosa, a fast-talking, pony-tailed graduate of University of Chicago's PhD program, is cashing in on the boom in illegal immigration himself. His startup, No Borders Inc., pedals debit-like cards on which immigrants can store cash, send money home to Mexico, make phone calls, and join medical discount plans.

Hardly an objective piece. An interview with a Clintonista with a built in conflict of interest? That's pathetic.

3 posted on 07/11/2005 7:24:01 PM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: bayourod

I'm not reading the rest of the article - but have one question. Why would the illegal segment disappear just because we offered incentives for some to come foreword and present themselves for identification and authorization? It would still be far cheaper for some employers to pay 20% below legal worker wages. What is missing from this is trading legalization en masse for the imposition of real border controls. Unless that happens any legalization program will be muted in its beneficial impact by the continued presence of illegals.


4 posted on 07/11/2005 7:26:05 PM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken (Seldom right, but never in doubt.)
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To: bayourod
They're also producing at relatively lower costs because the undocumented population typically gets about 20% less in wages than if they were legalized. That leads to lower prices for us and higher profits to employers.

That would change if they were made legal.

Also, it is important to note that while making them legal would increase the TOTAL output, the output per CURRENT citizen worker would decline. That's just basic microeconomics. If you increase the amount of labor going into the production mix, the "marginal" product of labor declines. At equilibrium, the wage is equal to the marginal product of labor, so decent hard working citizens would get paid less, since they will now be competing more directly with people who are until now illegal.

5 posted on 07/11/2005 7:27:33 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: bayourod
"Don't worry Vincente, I'll just call the new amnesty a 'guest

worker program' and my stupid peons will fall for it again."


6 posted on 07/11/2005 7:27:43 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: bayourod

It was once thought that the voices of the New World Order came from Euroweenies on another continent. Think again!


9 posted on 07/11/2005 7:31:13 PM PDT by Biblebelter
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To: bayourod
It's too bad you wasted bandwidth on the article.

Consider the following: The wages paid to the illegals + the amount of goods and services amounted to some $800 billion. Since by definition, the illegals wouldn't be hired if their wages were MORE than the value of what they produced, this sets an upper bound on their income of (say) $399 billion. By definition, the lower bound is ZERO. Second, the article states that their wages are "20% less" than what they would be on the open market. Now, given that number, we can come up with a range for either their pay (given the number of illegals assumed or admitted to be working here), or their number (given an assumed or admitted average pay). If there were 1 million illegal immigrants working in the US, the upper bound above would give them an average salary of $399,000 per year. Perhaps that's a bit too high. If there were 20 million illegal immigrants working in the US, their average salary would be just shy of $20,000 / yr. (Given that immigrants get paid less than legal workers, and that illegals tend to cluster in lower-skill, lower-paid work--"the work Americans won't do") this is at least reasonable.) Please recall a prior Business Week article, beating the drum for illegals as they used to for slave labor in China and wholesale outsourcing to India, presented one illegal couple who was making $120,000 per year and financed a Volkswagen Touareg. So far, so good. Why doesn't the article focus on the rising crime (Phoenix has among the highest auto-insurance rates in the country and the highest rate of identity theft in the US) or the medical costs (check with California hospitals)? In fact, the rising tide of illegal immigrations is a way for unscrupulous businesses to transfer many of the costs to the US taxpayer, from higher insurance and medical costs to higher taxes for unemployment). No cheers, unfortunately.

10 posted on 07/11/2005 7:39:10 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: bayourod
Who Are We: The Challenges to America's National Identity

By Samuel P. Huntington

Synopsis:

In his seminal work The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, Samuel Huntington argued provocatively and presciently that with the end of the cold war, "civilizations" were replacing ideologies as the new fault lines in international politics.

His astute analysis has proven correct. Now Professor Huntington turns his attention from international affairs to our domestic cultural rifts as he examines the impact other civilizations and their values are having on our own country.

America was founded by British settlers who brought with them a distinct culture including the English language, Protestant values, individualism, religious commitment, and respect for law. The waves of immigrants that later came to the United States gradually accepted these values and assimilated into America's Anglo-Protestant culture.More recently, however, national identity has been eroded by the problems of assimilating massive numbers of primarily Hispanic immigrants, bilingualism, multiculturalism, the devaluation of citizenship, and the "denationalization" of American elites.

September 11 brought a revival of American patriotism and a renewal of American identity. But already there are signs that this revival is fading, even though in the post-September 11 world, Americans face unprecedented challenges to our security.

Who Are We? shows the need for us to reassert the core values that make us Americans. Nothing less than our national identity is at stake.

Once again Samuel Huntington has written an important book that is certain to provoke a lively debate and to shape our national conversation about who we are.

12 posted on 07/11/2005 7:40:50 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
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To: bayourod

The theory behind Reagan's amnesty program was that existing illegals would be amnestied, but further illegal immigration would be stopped by controlling the borders and by enforcing regulations against employers who hired illegals.

As far as I can tell, there was no political will on anybody's part to do the followup stuff.

It's still not a bad idea. Amnesty existing illegals and stop new ones. The only problem is that A would be implemented but not B.

The US is entirely capable of assimilating existing immigrants. It cannot assimilate a continuous flow at the existing rates.


14 posted on 07/11/2005 7:42:34 PM PDT by Restorer (Liberalism: the auto-immune disease of societies.)
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To: bayourod
I will stick with Dr Thomas Sowell who's research indicates that for every dollar the illegals contribute to our economy they take two out.

The illegals are the number one users of the welfare system in America. They don't pay for car insurance, they don't pay for health insurance.

Have you been to an Emergency Room lately, you will be getting in line behind the illegals.

If these people took up fully productive positions in our society, fully taxed and insured, and went to the trouble and expense of following our laws, then they are welcome.

But to come here and sap our economy and live off of those of us who must play by the rules it pure BS just like the article above.
16 posted on 07/11/2005 7:52:13 PM PDT by Pylot
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To: bayourod
I believe the Minute Man project, or another like program, needs to be escalated to ARMED patrols. To show the seriousness and resolve of the American people on this issue. The wussification and PCification of America has even affected we hard core conservatives to the point we are sacrificing national sovereignty for fear of making others "uncomfortable". We should be macing the ACLU observer scum and smashing their cameras!
18 posted on 07/11/2005 8:19:40 PM PDT by Boiling point (If God had not meant for man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat!)
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To: bayourod
ARTICLE..."They're also producing at relatively lower costs because the undocumented population typically gets about 20% less in wages than if they were legalized. That leads to lower prices for us and higher profits to employers."

hmmmmm......the author apparently screwed up his talking points..he's getting ahead of himself.

Why would employers of illegals want Bush's guest worker proposal enacted in the first place? If illegals now become legal...and the bill succeeds magically in drastically cutting down the flow of illegals as its promised...then their profits drop by 20% with a guest worker bill. Or else the authors statement above is BS. If you factor in insurance...I think its much more than 20%.

Employers should be for the status quo...but mysteriously....somebody appears to actually be in FAVOR of said guest worker bill....I hear its the...employers!

Who in your opinion is lobbying for this bill...besides you, Bush, and Vincente.

If I as an employer can get all the illegals I want now because we have no border security...and they pass a guest worker bill with the same border security...hell...I just keep getting more and more illegals....and keep those nice 20% higher profits coming in. My financial inducements haven't changed at all.

Oh...but NOW we'll get serious and start going after the employers. With what...we don't have the personnel and infrastructure to do the job NOW...lets add 20 mil to be processed...and start adding yet more illegals to the mix.

As Ive said before...this all is so childishly obvious...why some people cant get it is because they don't WANT to get it.
26 posted on 07/11/2005 9:17:00 PM PDT by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: bayourod
Illegals have always been our friends and allies...blah blah blah



Newsflash for the in-house "undocumented worker" soothsayer: They broke the law to enter this country. They break the law every day they remain. Employers who knowingly hire them are breaking the law.

That ought to count for something.

Continue to post an ever shifting kaleidescope of rationalization of the problem.

It's amusing.

Sad, too.
27 posted on 07/11/2005 10:23:23 PM PDT by A Balrog of Morgoth (With fire, sword, and stinging whip I drive the RINOs in terror before me.)
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To: bayourod

Grant, for the sake of argument, an economic
"boom" results from the invasion. This "boom" is not worth the disintegration of our cultural, social and political institutions.


36 posted on 07/13/2005 5:46:44 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: bayourod
We've seen that 90% of the wages that the undocumented population gets are spent inside the U.S. Remittances are sent abroad, but that only represents about 10% of immigrants' income.

Fuzzy math?

37 posted on 07/13/2005 5:50:11 AM PDT by Terabitten (Illegal immigration causes Representation without Taxation.)
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To: bayourod
They come here to work in order to take their saving home to Mexico where they live like kings. Most of the money illegals earn goes to Mexico, not into the U.S. economy.
38 posted on 07/13/2005 5:50:41 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne (My tagline snapped the last time the MSM blew smoke up my ass. Now its gone forever.)
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To: bayourod
It appears that Businessweek is trying to supplant The Onion as a source of tongue-in-cheek humor.

The problem is that the underlying premise is too absurd to accomplish the intended parody. The only thing legalizing so-called undocumented immigrants would accomplish is more illegal immigration.

Seal the borders!

44 posted on 07/13/2005 6:05:44 AM PDT by neutrino (Globalization “is the economic treason that dare not speak its name.” (173))
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To: bayourod
They're also ...[receiving] about 20% less in wages...that leads...higher profits to employers.

There you have it the one and only reason business interests support the illegal invasion. The extra profit is a peculiar interest that pro-business Republicans serve.

Every other reason is whitewash and window dressing. If the extra exploitation profit wasn't there no one would want the invasion except for vote importing Democrats.

49 posted on 07/13/2005 6:31:45 AM PDT by Plutarch
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To: bayourod
Great Rod!!
Appeal to America's greed!!
Right?

Worked pretty good for justifying shutting down factories stateside -- *enmasse* -- & off-shoring *all* the work to China, eh? ;^)
And the same shtick will undoubtedly be used for ramming CAFTA down our throats too, I suppose. :o)

Can't recall exactly who to quote, nevertheless it's never been any truer than now, nonetheless.
Paraphrased: "A capitalist will sell the executioner the rope used to hang him with."

Amazing.

...America will never learn.

50 posted on 07/13/2005 6:41:28 AM PDT by Landru (The bravery of being out of range...)
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To: bayourod
As I've posted before, I don't believe the Administration's unwillingness to address illegal immigration has anything to do with economics. It's all about keeping Hugo Chavez from stirring up a Communist revolution in Mexico (and the subsequent conversion of Mexico into Al Qaeda's safest haven in the hemisphere) by allowing Vicente Fox a safety valve. Mexico's poor and downtrodden thus don't have to listen to Chavez's agitators when they can instead come to America, make money, and see for themselves that capitalism is a better option than Marxism.

Any economic displacements illegals cause in America are considered minor compared to the risk of having another Chavez on our southern border. The Administration is hoping that over time the economic disruptions will be minimized, that Mexicans who find success here will return home and export that success, and that Mexico will eventually come up to our level rather than dragging us down to theirs. It's a gamble, but one the Administration apparently feels they have to take...and can't openly talk about.

51 posted on 07/13/2005 6:44:34 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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