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China June trade surplus swells five-fold
Reuters ^ | Reuters

Posted on 07/11/2005 7:27:02 AM PDT by jpsb

BEIJING (Reuters) - China's trade surplus for June swelled five-fold from a year earlier as exports grew much faster than imports, offering more ammunition for foreign critics who argue that Beijing should let the yuan rise in value.

The June surplus grew to $9.68 billion, exceeding forecasts of $8.0 billion and towering above the $1.8 billion surplus recorded for June 2004.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anticonsumer; businesshating; chicoms; chinatrade; cowardlynamecalling; economicignorance; fairtrade; fearmongering; freetraitors; isolationism; robbingusblind; suckers; tradewar
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To: jpsb; A. Pole; Jeff Head; B4Ranch; devolve; SJackson; dennisw
The June surplus grew to $9.68 billion, exceeding forecasts of $8.0 billion and towering above the $1.8 billion surplus recorded for June 2004.

161 posted on 07/11/2005 1:27:11 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (Viva La MIGRA - LONG LIVE THE BORDER PATROL!)
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To: expat_panama
Over the past half century US real wages have tripled.

Yes, we had growth in real wages in the 1950's and 1960's,

but since 1970, real wages have not increased, and if you consider the increases in taxes since 1970, the standard of living has actually declined.

http://www.imf.org/EXTERNAL/PUBS/FT/ISSUES11/INDEX.HTM

"the average real wage in the United States (that is, the average wage adjusted for inflation) has grown only slowly since the early 1970s and the real wage for unskilled workers has actually fallen. "

162 posted on 07/11/2005 1:27:38 PM PDT by SandyB
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To: HamiltonJay; Modernman
How much rolled steel did the US produce in 2004 compared to 1974....

The Federal Reserve stats have metal production up since '74.   It's been going up for the past few years too, though it still isn't back up to the pre 9/11 peak.

That's all well and good, but IMHO the US has greater strengths than steel.   During the Iraq war, Saddam had more steel (tanks) and we had more information (AWACS). 

163 posted on 07/11/2005 1:28:55 PM PDT by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama
The Federal Reserve stats have metal production up since '74.

You don't fight fair, what with all those facts you throw around.

164 posted on 07/11/2005 1:31:25 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: expat_panama
The rest of the world already knows that US labor is the most productive (check out International Comparisons of Productivity). Let's get together on the facts.

Productivity figures are almost meaningless, since there is little that america produces anymore. Only 1 in 10 workers currently actually "produces" anything, 9 out of 10 american workers produce nothing, and moving jobs to asia is only just begun. Within 10 years, most of the current jobs in america that produce anything, will be gone also. Nobody is buying American made products. Foreigners are not buying american made products, and neither are american consumers.

165 posted on 07/11/2005 1:31:34 PM PDT by SandyB
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To: Andrewksu
Your post assumes that the competition is between U.S. corporations and Chinese corporations. It is not, it is between outsourced U.S. manufacturing and domestic U.S. manufacturing. Domestic Chinese manufacturers are no competition for U.S. companies, at least not yet, they're learning quickly, from us.
166 posted on 07/11/2005 1:32:32 PM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Paul Ross

Great post, big BUMP!


167 posted on 07/11/2005 1:33:17 PM PDT by jpsb (I already know I am a terrible speller)
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To: Alberta's Child
I think your legal points are all quite valid. The Chi-com monolith is striving to break into name brands however with their home electronics, and computers.

U.S. consumers are blissfully unaware of the lack of intellectual property integrity behind those labels. So with China snapping up things on the Cheap, name-brand assets such as IBM and Unocal, who knows if they can learn to talk the talk and walk the walk. Will they make the brand name "Lenovo" fly? If they do, then we will see the trends only accelerate against us.

168 posted on 07/11/2005 1:34:14 PM PDT by Paul Ross (George Patton: "I hate to have to fight for the same ground twice.")
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To: expat_panama
That's all well and good, but IMHO the US has greater strengths than steel. During the Iraq war, Saddam had more steel (tanks) and we had more information (AWACS).

Free Traitors have given that capability to the Chicoms.

Red Chinese deploy their first AWACS

169 posted on 07/11/2005 1:36:15 PM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer - and some people polka)
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To: SandyB
Productivity figures are almost meaningless, since there is little that america produces anymore.

Not true. We produce a lot of things, it's just that it doesn't take that many Americans to make them anymore.

Only 1 in 10 workers currently actually "produces" anything,

That is because American workers, and American industry, are incredibly efficient. We don't need a lot of people working in manufacturing.

A very small percentage of Americans work in agriculture, for the very same reasons.

Within 10 years, most of the current jobs in america that produce anything, will be gone also.

Within a couple of decades, robotics will have more or less completely wiped out manufacturing jobs altogether.

Nobody is buying American made products.

Really? The majority of the money I spent on manufactured items last year were for goods made in the USA.

170 posted on 07/11/2005 1:39:56 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: HamiltonJay
If household income were the only determining factor in our standard of living, you might have a point. The truth, though, is that when you take into account all of the things that we enjoy today that didn't even exist in 1970 in the areas of transportation (anti-lock brakes, airbags, computerized fuel injection, etc), medicine and medical technology (CAT scans, laproscopic surgery, magnetic resonance imaging, etc.), and computers (a typical hand-held computer game today is more advanced than the Apollo 11 spacecraft in 1969), you realize that our standard of living has done far more than just "gain ground" over the previous generation. As a side note -- how many families in 1970 sent their high school age kids to Aruba for a class trip?

If you look at household incomes, adjusted for inflation since 1970, you'll see its marginal increased at best.

The reality here is that "household income" is one of the most misleading statistics that is used in economics today. While it is true that household income has barely kept pace with inflation over time (or has even declined), there is almost no correlation between this statistic and our standard of living. The primary factor in stagnating (or declining) household income has been a reduction in household size, not a decline in income -- which means we simply have more "income earners" living in separate households. Whereas many households used to include grandparents in addition to parents and kids, we now have many senior citizens living long lives on their own instead of sharing a home (and Social Security check) with their grown children.

There is a reason why the media will often focus on "household income" as a key economic indicator when the topic of U.S. living standards is discussed -- it's because if they used "individual income" instead, it would be obvious that we are a hell of a lot richer than we used to be.

171 posted on 07/11/2005 1:40:14 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: Willie Green
Free Traitors have given that capability to the Chicoms.

Um, no. From the article:

The aircraft are based on the Russian Beriev A-50 Mainstay airframe but use wholly Chinese created phased array radar components housed in a non-rotating dome, providing 360 degree coverage.

172 posted on 07/11/2005 1:41:37 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: Protagoras
Oh, I see,,we can't rebuild it

Not without the national will to do so.

As a nation we are preoccupied with consuming and instant gratification rather than producing and we will mortgage whatever productive assets we have to keep consuming. Look how consumers are given tax breaks (IE mortgage deductions) producers are taxed. Manufacturing requires much patient capital to build up plant and equipment. I don't see that changing either in a next quarter results based management system.

173 posted on 07/11/2005 1:42:14 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: HamiltonJay
That's a fundamental reality and truth, and all the free traders attempts to cherry pick don't change that reality.

Yes, and manufacturing output is a better indication of the strength of this country's manufacturing sector than manufacturing employment is. Manufacturing ouput has increased almost every year in this country for decades . . . does that sound like a manufacturing decline to you?

174 posted on 07/11/2005 1:44:24 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: All

In a decade or two our most prized possessions may be a rice bowl and a bicycle.


175 posted on 07/11/2005 1:44:47 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Modernman
Productivity figures are almost meaningless, since there is little that america produces anymore.

Not true. We produce a lot of things, it's just that it doesn't take that many Americans to make them anymore.

What? What do we produce? What "Made in USA" products do you buy?

(We know all the people of foreign countries are not buying anything "made in USA" because of our HUGE!! trade deficit)

176 posted on 07/11/2005 1:45:33 PM PDT by SandyB
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To: Alberta's Child
I agree on all points, but I think it still adds up to a significant threat to our economy and security.

With China's size, in population, landmass, and resources, it has massive potential, with their culture and communism holding them back. eventually they will adapt and capitalism will win, or communism will halt further growth and they will stagnate. At that point, the will be very dangerous, as they will have made leaps and bounds in wealth, technology, and manufacturing capabilities. If communism prevails, the economy will start to back slide and China will become very restless.

On the other hand, if capitalism continues to succeed, the Chinese people will demand democracy, and then all will be well.
177 posted on 07/11/2005 1:45:39 PM PDT by Andrewksu
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To: HamiltonJay
When a direct conflict could be destroying 100s of planes or tanks a day, we could not currently produce them fast enough to replace the losses simply because we don't have the infrastructure left to do it.

That's sort of like saying that we are facing some kind of calamity just because Boulder Dam could be destroyed in a matter of minutes but it would take months and years to rebuild it. There isn't a nation in the world today that could produce military hardware fast enough to replace the ones that would be depleted in a major war, so I don't see this as a huge issue.

178 posted on 07/11/2005 1:47:31 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: Paul Ross
All your graphs and charts must be upside down. Yours look bad.......
179 posted on 07/11/2005 1:47:33 PM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Alberta's Child

Again, it depends what you wish to look at.

in 1970 the median household income was 25,000... today its 40,000.. in 1970 a semester at Harvard was about 2,500 today its 40,000.

In 1970 a HS graduate could expect to earn the median income levels, own 2 cars a boat 3 kids and a boat to fish in and spending money... today a HS graduate can't in general expect that.

Free Trade didn't invent the computer or the IC or the MRI.... standard of living increases were created largely because larger manufacturing companies had excess money to pump into R&D.. something that Service industry jobs, because they don't create nearly as much wealth as manufacturing cannot afford to do.

Free Trade didn't create or even allow the the advances you claim to be "better quality of life"... in fact its help undermining it for the next generation.


180 posted on 07/11/2005 1:47:53 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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