Posted on 07/07/2005 2:35:12 PM PDT by libertarianben
Four young British Muslims in their twenties - a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser - occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.
(Excerpt) Read more at thisislondon.co.uk ...
This is Madison:
Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?
-- James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, addressed to the Virginia General Assemby, June 20, 1785
Here is Thomas Jefferson. Read and compare his vision of religious freedom to your vision of religious tyranny.
"the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantel of its protection(of religious freedom), the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohametan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."--Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1:67
"...our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950,
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808
"(When) the (Virginia) bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protections of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantel of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohametan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."--Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1:67
Welcome Back, FRiend!
Evidently our moderate and moderately ignorant cohort is unaware that the warm and fuzzie muzzies consider Jesus as a lesser prophet, with a lesser revelation, to less holy believers.
We are not the children of a lesser god. They are.
They need to sign on to our program - not vice versa!
A.A.C.
Swift and Bloody Death unto the Murderers of my Brit friends!
#56
People need to wake up! The war has already started we need to get rid of these people before they get rid of us! It's that clear!
You fail to grasp the meaning of my post. I do not advocate outlawing religion - only destructive cults, and more specifically, the destructive doctrines of cults. Where Islam advocates the death of non-members (non-believers), the destruction of society, the conquering and dismantling of established governments, then it ceases to be a legitimate religion and becomes a dangerous cult.
In order for Islam to become a legitimate and acceptable religion, then those destructive tenets must be removed from their practices, teachings, and koran. How likely is that?
Your 1st quote in post # 60 from George Washington proves my point and I show it here with emphasis added so you may consider your own reasoning:
"The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy-a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship.
It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support."
Your 2nd quote (of Madison) in post # 61 is non sequitur. I never advocated establishing one religion in exclusion of all others.
As for your 3rd quote (of Jefferson) in post # 62, it too proves my point (which you have failed to address). The following excerpts are the relevant portions with emphasis added:
"...our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950,
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808(Note: By not including the States or local governments in this statement, it shows clear intent that this action was reserved to the States and their citizenry.)
"(When) the (Virginia) bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right.
(Comment: Where is the reason and light of mass slaughter of innocents, ritual beheadings, and forced conversion to Islam.)
Where is 'the latitude of reason and light' in your comment (shown next):
"Here is Thomas Jefferson. Read and compare his vision of religious freedom to your vision of religious tyranny."
I do not engage in religious tyranny. Your comments and posts do not reflect reason and common sense, nor do they contain any examples of what you term as my 'religious tyranny'. Your arguments are weak
I respect your desire to protect religious freedom of the 1st amendment (a desire which I also share), but you ignore the realities of destructive cults and common sense. A religion which advocates (but does not practice) destructive and evil acts might be tolerated in a civilized society, but one which engages in those same acts can not be permitted to continue unabated.
And finally, being tolerant of a religion is not the same as being a willing lamb led to the slaughter. I recommend not becoming a sacrificial lamb.
"It's all the fault of the Jooooos...is that what you are trying to say?"
I think you're likely to find that you're 180 degrees off the mark with that one, as far as the poster to which you're responding is concerned.
The truth is right there.
What a bunch of degenerate scum.
Of course you already know that, but ignore it.
"Do you see that a sword cuts both ways?"
I can't speak for "RebelTex," but I will say that our greatest strength as a society, as far as our own citizens is concerned, is being exploited by an enemy from outside and inside. This exploitation is cynical enough to imply study of our external weaknesses, and deliberate, long range planning as to how to take advantage of them. To me, the enemy is anyone who would destroy me, those who I love and my state and nation. That there is a religious component to this "enemy" does throw us into disarray, and this is not accidental, in my opinion. It seems to me that a group of easily-manipulated, hot-headed, sexually deprived men with little hope of marriage, have been steadily radicalized over decades. I do not attribute this radicalization entirely to the imams. These fanatics are like puppets on a string, and their actions can and do serve more than one master.
Do you recognize that our most cherished ideals as a nation are being cynically manipulated from without, and if so, how would you propose to respond? I suppose your answer would depend upon what you presumed the intent of these attacks to be. Is it an attempt to subsume or destroy infidel nations, or is it an attempt to get us to abandon liberal society as it is understood in the western hemisphere? Could it not be both?
9/11 was merely the fruits of a n uisance weapon? Is that what you are telling us here? Are you a closet jihadiost?
I don't buy that. There were more US casualties than Pearl Harbor, and in fact terror bombings are used as a strategic weapon against civilian populations. Sort of like a V2 rocket with feet.
"You should have as much respect for my work as the four buttocks which engendered you, and for the peg of life which united them."
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