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1 posted on 07/06/2005 8:33:44 AM PDT by skyman
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To: skyman

A couple of points...

It says GM rejected the idea in 1964.

Seems like a lot has changed since then. I wouldn't be surprised if GM has re-evaluated these devices as time goes on.

Also, GM (and other automotive manufacturers) are transistioning from the 12V system to a larger one (48v? - I can't remember).

Using the higher-voltage system may make these devices more practical. GM may be waiting until after the higher-voltage platforms are rolled out to implement this type of cooling device.


62 posted on 07/06/2005 9:47:26 AM PDT by babyface00
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To: skyman

I discussed this device with GM in the 1960's (when I worked there). A co-worker had actually built one in the 1950's. It was invented in the early 1800's.

The problem is that it is very inefficient. It produces far fewer BTU's of cooling for the same amount of engine energy, than a current air conditioner does. Air conditioner requirements include quick, cold air on hot days, and sufficient cold air to cool the vehicle at all speeds in very hot conditions. If a Peltier device was built that met the same requirements, it would use more engine power than the current air conditioner requires.


73 posted on 07/06/2005 9:59:05 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage
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To: skyman

82 posted on 07/06/2005 10:11:44 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Washington DC RINO Hunting Guide)
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To: skyman
It is not a new idea. I worked for a marine electronics company in San Diego from 1977 to 1980. During that time I was responsible for servicing Magnavox satellite navigation systems on the west coast. One of my calls was to Ballast Point to repair a satnav on a research submarine. Submarines need air conditioning, but they don't use freon because it turns into phosgene gas in a fire (neurotoxin). The sub uses Peltier devices with the hot side bonded to the hull. Air handlers blow air over the cold side. The "idea" was deployed in the real world circa 1977.

The concept probably won't save any fuel. The Peltier device requires active electrical drive that will come from the car battery. The alternator has to charge that battery using engine power derived by burning gasoline. A freon based compressor is driven from the same set of engine pulleys.

91 posted on 07/06/2005 10:23:45 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: All
After they had already begun their work, Lyon
and Winegar learned about a 1964 General Motors
analysis that explored the idea before the car
company concluded it wasn't possible.

I worked my way through collage working at a discount
emporium. This old fellow would come through my
register Sunday mornings. He was dressed in khaki work
clothes. But, he had a diamond ring; the diamond the
size of a nickel. His wife always had lots of jewelry
on too.

Turns out he was a mechanic. In the early 1950’s he
patented the idea of three color tail lights on cars.
Green you’re on the gas, amber you’re coasting, red
you’re breaking. The car companies wanted to buy the
patent, not to implement it, but to kill it.

He wouldn’t sell it. He wanted royalties.
He had retired at 26 years old in the late 1950’s.

These kids may do very well for themselves.

92 posted on 07/06/2005 10:24:59 AM PDT by Cyber Ninja (His legacy is a stain on the dress.)
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To: skyman

So... they are dumping the heat where? outside? on a hot day? Efficient? Some kids need to look up the word and learn how to calculate it.


118 posted on 07/06/2005 10:53:55 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: skyman

I really think this is awesome. I mean, this is Thomas Edison type American inventiveness. I hope they focus on fusion, teleportation and faster-than-light space engines next.


134 posted on 07/06/2005 11:12:37 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: skyman

too bad so much creative energy is wasted shooting down bogey men like "freon".


145 posted on 07/06/2005 11:22:04 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (In Honor of Terri Schiavo. *check my FReeppage for the link* Let it load and have the sound on.)
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To: skyman

Woo Hoo!


155 posted on 07/06/2005 11:27:35 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: skyman
"It's been a total, unbelievable dream," marveled Tyler's mom, Diane Lyon, last week. "They're just typical boys. But when someone believes in you, amazing things can happen."

Democrats don't believe in our troops, the intelligence of the American people, the legislators or the institutions of marriage, church and family. NO wonder they keep losing. And no wonder I am a
Recovering_Democrat.

196 posted on 07/06/2005 12:44:56 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: skyman
All of physics relies on size except for nuclear devices.

There is no way that a practical A/C system can be made to cool the interior of a full size car using any sort of Peltier chip without the chip surface area approximating the dimensions of the area to be cooled that I can imagine.

I will need more information and a demonstrable device to be convinced.

206 posted on 07/06/2005 1:17:15 PM PDT by Old Professer (As darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of good; innocence is blind.)
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To: skyman

Bravo!


242 posted on 07/06/2005 9:47:16 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: skyman

Questionable gas savings aside, I want cold air coming from my AC. I mean my wife-needs-to-wear-a-sweater-while-riding-with-me-cold. Can these chips deliver that?


250 posted on 07/07/2005 6:20:15 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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