China Debuts "Aegis" Destroyers

http://www.afcea.org/signal/ ^ | James C. Bussert

[sukhoi-30mki]

China’s new DDG 170 guided missile destroyer features Aegis-type phased array antennas and a ship-to-ship missile control Bandstand radome dominating the bridge. The ship’s numerous foreign weapons and new radomes hint at the complexity of its electronic functions

[sukhoi-30mki]

Ping!!!!!

[mylife]

Looks Like China has a nest of spies deep inside Taiwan to me

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #2

I get the impression that they want to churn out massive amount of armament in a next few years. They appear to try to meet preset numerical targets in a hurry.

[Stonewall Jackson]

Here they come.

[DarkWaters]

Seems that technological gap is shrinking rather fast.

[Dat Mon]

China's manufacturing capacity and infrastructure, their technology capability, their economic strength as measured in GDP and cash reserves, and their military weapons procurement and deployment are obviously all integrally related...and related in a synergistic sense. Growth in one will fuel growth in the others.

Think for example of the fact that China has maintained a nearly ten percent rate of growth in GDP for some time. Now think of the simple concept of compound interest..applied at a constant rate of ten percent.

Their growth is a nonlinear function...and China is IMHO presently at what engineers call the 'knee of the curve'.

[Cicero]

Much of this probably came from bill clinton and his corrupt donors in the defense industry. I don't know what the lead time is for building an Aegis destroyer, but this stuff must have been stolen some years ago to be appearing fully commissioned on the water now.

[kylaka]

I wonder how well it's equipped for undersea operations. Can it still see over the horizon, if the horizon is 6000 feet above them?

[Jeff Head]

Been talking about this for months since they were first spotted building (2 at a time) in late 2003.

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA

Documented the continued building after the first two were launched and at least one of them (perhaps both) had been integrated into sertvice.

THE RAPID GROWTH & MODERNIZATION OF THE PLAN

And now have produced a relative pictorial and capability comparison...side by side at the following link which I will publish here on FR this Friday or during the weekend once I get the subs on there.

SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF THE PLAN AND THE USN

[indthkr]

"Looks Like China has a nest of spies deep inside Taiwan to me"

While they undoubtedly have stolen some of it, the fact of the matter is that a country that churns-out over 200,000 scientists and engineers a year can figure out how to do things, and eventually, do things better.

".... presently at what engineers call the 'knee of the curve'"

Sad to say, but when it comes to capacity and infrastructure, China is operating at y=e^x,   whereas the U.S. has chosen to operate at y=Log(x).

[CaptRon]

Seawater's going to wreak havoc on the electornics at that depth.

[Kuehn12]

They need to mass produce these things. Their version of the Aegis destroyer has to number nearly 30 before it becomes parity, this true with many of their weapons systems. It is a threshold. What I mean is that we still have time not much, but we have time to step up, lend lease program with Taiwan, and a NATO type organization in the Pacific.

[DarkWaters]

What I mean is that we still have time not much, but we have time to step up, lend lease program with Taiwan, and a NATO type organization in the Pacific.

I agree we still have some time, how much probably depends on their strategy. I was mainly referring to the tech. advances they have at their disposal. They steal it and unfortunately seem to learn very quickly how to implement it. Probably one of the reasons why we haven't seen a huge build up of the ships of various sizes as of yet has to do with learning building techniques, training as many people as possible on just a few projects, learning supply management of resources, gearing up their own steel industry to conceal actual tonnage of material produced, and over all planning. They have taken their time to get it right, they won't rush it beyond the point of alarm yet. Make to much at once and you stir a hornets nest but if you add to your ships a little hear and a little there you can keep things relatively calm. And to top things off build some of the smaller ships in locations that are not so prone to prying eyes of satellites and keep them that way until you need them in a pinch assuming they have the resources to do that.

Second, I am all for bringing back SEATO, it would be a welcomed sight at this point. Better coordination in devising defensive and offensive capabilities, tactics, and strategy. I would also like to see us devote more time to building more subs especially the boomers, and then station them down their and let PLA sweat and the Russians to if they are going to give them any cover in the event of war.

[thoughtomator]

...two domestically designed and built guided missile destroyers that include Aegis-type radars and related technologies

Domestically designed, my hindquarters.

[Wombat101]

Last I heard, this was already being considered -- Congress has been kicking around building or selling Taiwan 4 Aegis equipped DDG's for a couple of years now. Another thing to take into consideration: these (Chinese Aegis ships) are air-defense ships with a limited ASW capability (to judge from the ASW weapons listed).

If I were Taiwan, I'd start stocking up on submarines. Chinese capabilities seem to have grown in amphibious shipping/heavy sealift and air defense. Perhaps this is a weakness that submarines can exploit.

Secondly, Tawian should also start stocking up on submarine-launched mines in order to deny the approaches to Taiwan, or if necessary, to mine the approaches to PRC ports. The PLAN still has the same basic problem: crossing the straits with a sufficient land force to invade, or a sufficient fleet in order to blockade. Mines would be a quick and cheap solution. Not a total one, but a start.

Finally, if I were Tawian, I'd start getting closer to Japan and India and forging some kind of defense ties. In the event the US Navy cannot get to Taiwan in time, having the Japanese/Indians in the neighborhood might come in quite handy. It also puts two additional, substantial threats on the Chinese flanks in the event of war over Taiwan. I'm sure the PRC has already thought over the threat from the United States, I wonder how they would think if faced by a US/Japan/India alliance, with a nuclear India right next door.

However, this is all bluster on the part of the PRC. I don't believe a war over Taiwan will start anytime soon because the Commies are really more interested in staying in power. If the shooting started over Taiwan it would unleash force within China that cannot easily be controlled if victory does not come quickly. if given a choice between staying in power or taking a massive black eye in a fight for Taiwan, the party can be counted on to protect it's own behind first.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Whether it's entirely homebuilt or not,it's still a considerable achievement for the PRC.I think the phased array radars were developed in collaboration with a Ukranian radio-electronics research facility.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Not only is the US rather undecided on selling Aegis equipped ships,the Taiwanese parliament seems lost too.The current proposals are to build the ships in Taiwan & use American systems on it.Anyway,even if Taiwan gets this ships(sold or built) in 3 or 4 years,it will take over an year for them to train officers & build up logistics for those vessels,given that they have never operated anything as big or complex.

The Type-052C's ASW capabilities appear limited,but they are easily the best the PLA-N has fielded ever & the more important point is,submarines are one area where Taiwan is hopelessly weak.Their current force consists of only 2 credible 1980s era Dutch subs & 2 American world war 2 era boats.One would have to be deluded to assume the PLA-N hasn't been tracking those vessels. & It is highly unlikely that they will get new vessels with all potential sub designing nations hedging their bets with the PRC.

[Wombat101]

I don't disagree with you, except upon one point: that teh PRC will risk political power over Taiwan.

Taiwan is, to quote Orwell, "a stain, a flaw in the pattern that must be wiped out". Part of this is political: no rival system can exist next to Chinese Communism as an example to the Chinese people that there might be another way. In this regard, the ChiComs are no different from the Jihadists vis-a-vis Islam. The second part of that equation is that Taiwan also serves as the 800-pound gorilla in the closet: so long as it exists, it can be presented as hostile to mainland China. In this role, Taiwan is a valuable propaganda tool.

However, we're not talking the China of Mao and the Great Leap Forward. We're talking about the China of Glastnost and the Information Age. The current Chinese economic "miracle" is merely a piece of the plan to keep the PRC in power. They saw what happened to the Soviets when Gorbachev unleashed political reforms that could not be controlled. Rather than have Chinese "vote with their feet" like the East Germans did, the PRC is perfectly willing to compromise and let the people have a scaled-down version of economic freedom, provided they do not get it into their heads that POLITICAL freedom naturally follows.

War over Taiwan (or war in general) threatens this arrangement. In the age of the internet, cell phones and 24/7/365 satellite media, the Chinese could not hide the initial beating they would take in the early stages of tackling Taiwan. Once the Chiense man in the street saw or heard of this, his opinion might seriously change and the PRC would be in quite a bit of trouble. The party would think three times before allowing this to happen.

And I have no doubt they would take a beating. Despite the penchant for quantity in ships, aircraft amd missiles, there is nothing that beats quality. Here the United States and it's allies have the Chinese beat hands down.

Additionally, China is surrounded by potential enemies: Japan, Australia, the United States, teh Philipines, India, South Korea (and even the Vietnamese are getting ansty). The Russians still have a pathologic fear of the Chinese, too. Any Chinese foray into the straits of Taiwan would be under the eyes of hostile airpower, hostile submarine and hostile fleets ready for action.

Forget any scenario where North Korea aid the PRC with sabre rattling over Korea or nukes. Moscow would not stand still for it at all.

[adam_az]

....Does it even work?