Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 5

Various News Outlets | 7/4/05

[TexKat]

Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba.

AP photo

[Rippersnapper]

BTW, We can't prove Natalee is alive either, but there is more common sense that says she isn't.

Without evidence that she is dead, common sense would dictate that she just may be alive. jmo

[Yaelle]

Brilliant. Thanks for the link to that. I've been following this story but I hadn't read or seen that interview.

So there was a call made from Natalee to someone in her group, and possibly even to Natalee's home, both around 3 a.m. Obviously no one answered because they were all asleep. No one knew she was drugged and in trouble until much later.

"I don't know these people" sounds like maybe Joran wasn't even there at that time. Could this mean that Paulus and maybe someone else had her, and were raping her? Maybe Joran is up to take the fall, sit in jail for a couple summer months, and then get out and they all go live in Holland?? Maybe she faked being passed out and they left her in a room long enough for her to make a couple of calls.

And when they went to the VDS home that night, could Joran have been home all along? I mean, who doesn't hear the sirens and bullhorns until the 3rd try? Probably Paulus and Joran were in a huddle. They could have decided to have Joran hide, they wouldn't search right away with no warrant (and his best friend is the chief of police), and Paulus would send them on a goose chase to a casino.

Who knows what evidence Joran could have gotten rid of quickly? But as it turns out, the VDS house was NEVER searched, was it? Computers were taken but I haven't heard of the crime lab going through there.

More speculation: someone on these threads mentioned recently that if Joran did this all the time, why aren't the other American girls he's taken advantage of coming forward? Maybe because the girls were procured for his Dad?? Who's going to come forward and accuse a "judge"? Whose best friend is the chief of police? I wonder how often Mrs. VDS is not around. Daddy sounds like a real player. And yet he is unattractive while his son is more handsome.

[TexKat]

I believe Greta just stated the the F-16 are flying up and down the island.

[over3Owithabrain]

Very interesting! Who would have known? This is what we're all saying.....Nat, BH, chaperones......who would have known? Thanks for the advice.

Sorry you don't see the foolishness of a teenage girl party trip without proper supervision in a foreign land. My example proves the point. I was a grown man safely in a car not needing to stop and using common sense, who was ACCIDENTALLY out late at night. Not female, 18 and drinking and flirting unchaperoned on a foreign island. Nat's mom, like all the others was not careful enough. BTW, if it was just random bad luck that could have happened anywhere, anytime, say something about all the calls for Aruba boycotts without the facts, etc.

Wouldn't you like something positive to come out of this, at least a lesson to future girls and their parents about taking these kind of indulgent and dangerous trips? Apparently not.

[the Deejay]

"You can get your Great fix tonight at 10PM."

LOL!

Did that anchor chick mean us?

[Dark Skies]

You're a sweetie pie!

Regarding the FBI, I sure hope they're hard at work. But with the Aruba LE keeping them in the role of observer, they are probably prevented from performing any forensic tests on evidence found.

The really sad thing here is that the Aruba police are like small town police in that they lack real forensic and murder/kidnapping experience. They are getting on-the-job training at Nat's expense. Leads one to believe they don't want to solve the case...or they are afraid of where a rigorous examination of the evidence might lead.

They are doing an excellent job of holding the truth hostage.

[hummingbird]

My husband's friend was murdered in Jamaica and they covered it up.

Dang...sorry to hear about your husband's friend. Was the investigation, or lack thereof, in any way similar to how the investigation, or lack thereof, is going on in Aruba? Were you able to find out the circumstances?

My brother went to Jamaica years ago with a team from his college and another college to study the sunken ships around Jamaica. They were told, in no uncertain terms, that if they did anything illegal or behaved in any way that could be troubling to the locals, not to expect anyone to be able to get them out of trouble.

I would expect that to be true for anywhere you are traveling but they (sponsors of the trip) were very explicit about this.

[Yaelle]

It's a good theory.

But why would Beth Twitty be so sure they were involved in a violent crime? Maybe she is exaggerating and referring to accessory after the fact? Or does she know that they must have known? They may have cracked in jail to get let free, and now feel they are in danger, as you say.

[the Deejay]

Unless NH is standing out in the open
waving a red flag, the F-16's won't
find her.

[hummingbird]

Thanks, "guys!"

[Trust but Verify]

Likeothers, what is that supposed to accomplish? It's silly unless someone knows of some existing technology that detects 4+week dead cadavers on land or sea.

[TexKat]

Greta stated that one of the Kalpoes said that the judge stated that there is no evidence of a crime. All they have is a missing teenager.

So what does that say about Joran's fate. I guess one may say no body, no crime yall, unless they come up with some evidence between now and the 60 days, if Joran is not release on an appeal prior to the 60 days!!

[Rippersnapper]

This is false. A couple of the girls talked to Natalee as she was leaving. Also, the statement that all were intoxicated is clearly a generalization.

That person was there. Perhaps you should go to that website and post back to that person and tell them that they do not know what they did when they were there. They do not know how late they stayed out. They do not know how much they drank or how they felt. Let them know all the things they got wrong about their vacation.

[Trust but Verify]

I do like Greta's reporting. I will tend to watch her show if I'm not already in bed by the time it comes on. She has had some good 'scoops'.

[spectre]

You simply WANT to make a case that she may be alive. I can do that as well. But it's so far fetched it's laughable.

Because Joran and the 2 other boys had Natalee in their care, it's up to them to prove she is alive.

And simply changing their story to say they left her on the beach just doesn't get it.

You're smarter than that, Rip.

sw

[Rippersnapper]

She called them criminals.

If you are not convicted are you still a criminal? Or just a suspect?

[truthluva]

I heard that one of the things the F-16's might spot would be a container. If they put her body in some type of container and dropped it in the ocean that would explain why nothing washed up on the beach. They will be collecting images of the ocean floor for something along those lines. Makes sense.

[toldyou]

I never said that a guy would "let" them.
It was quoted from a person living in Aruba. Yea, afterall, what do they know what goes on in their little paradise?

[hummingbird]

Something went so wrong here, and through all this, we've all become a little wiser. Then again, if it weren't for BH, as many of us feel, we wouldn't know about this tragedy. How many other misfortunes like this have we not heard about? It has made us all a little wiser.

Well stated.