Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3

Seems like the tripping by Natalee was the first I heard about a "black security guard" assisting her followed by the arrest of the two guards.

4,961 posted on 06/30/2005 7:08:59 AM PDT by daybreakcoming

To: daybreakcoming

Every lie can have a kernel of truth.

Perhaps she tripped getting out of the car, whereever it was that they took her. Perhaps the date rape drug was kicking in pretty strong. Perhaps she was trying to get away in rocky terrain.

I think she tripped. But not like they said.

4,962 posted on 06/30/2005 7:11:23 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)

Definitely all roads lead back to Joran.

I don't know what it's going to take to find a hint of justice in Aruba, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

The entire "investigation" stinks; it's worse than incompetence.

4,963 posted on 06/30/2005 7:12:22 AM PDT by Peach

To: daybreakcoming

And perhaps the "tripping" was to explain a sometime in the future discovery of injuries on her body. "Oh she fell and fractured her skull before she fell asleep on the beach and was carried out into the ocean, or fell in a cistern, or whatever"

Saying "she tripped" has alot of meaning, just not what they are saying.

4,964 posted on 06/30/2005 7:13:00 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)

So, his mother and father have "invited" Joran's friends over to their house to find out what they told the police Joran said about Natalee -- and now they are allowed to go into the jail to have a "private meeting" with him? Gosh, I'm sure they won't tell him how to "customize" his next answers.

I almost had a stroke when I heard that news. And the Prosecutor indicated it was all this new judge's call! I'm in shock that their government thinks they can get away with this dog & pony excuse for justice.

4,965 posted on 06/30/2005 7:17:06 AM PDT by demkicker (A skunk sat on a stump; the stump thunk the skunk stunk; the skunk thunk the stump stunk.)

I just went to scared monkey where they are all engaged in a discussion of how Joran should be permitted to come to college here in the states, maintain his scholarship, how he should be given every presumption of innocence as "nothing has been proved"

I almost had a stroke. The folks there are all engaged in a circle jerk on the importance of his "rights".

PS can I use the words "circle jerk" or will I be banned?

4,966 posted on 06/30/2005 7:25:35 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)

Is this the first we've heard something about Natalee tripping when she got out of the car? I caught the tail end of a FNC report.

No, I've heard it or read it before. This is one of those rehearsed details that Mark Furhman says is a dead give away.

4,967 posted on 06/30/2005 7:27:48 AM PDT by demkicker (A skunk sat on a stump; the stump thunk the skunk stunk; the skunk thunk the stump stunk.)

"The entire "investigation" stinks; it's worse than incompetence."

WHAT investigation? There's no "investigation".

I will never set foot on Aruba...never.

4,968 posted on 06/30/2005 7:28:11 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)

There were conflicting reports on whether Papa's interview yesterday with Joran was recorded (bugged). Some Auraban official, maybe a lawyer, said certainly not! Then this am, another Aruban lawyer thought it would have been recorded. Seems elementary, if you let Papa go because the new judge from Curacao didn't have enough proof of involvement or obstructing the investigation, you don't give him a chance to obstruct some more. Plus, he and his wife invited one of J's pals over to find out what he knew about J'a recent activities, and maybe to hint strongly that it would be better to back J up. Every person on that island is well aware of how small it is, and if they put a foot wrong, they could suffer the consequences and be targeted for revenge...small businesses go kaput, maybe get licenses revoked, etc. I think Mark Fuhrman mentioned the likelihood of this. Also, last night the EQUUSearch leader said they'd be looking in waters out from shore today, not close in... wouldn't say where, but seemed to think they had a lead.

4,969 posted on 06/30/2005 7:29:33 AM PDT by hershey

Oh please...I pray he goes to College here. I totally believe in Karma..

4,970 posted on 06/30/2005 7:31:24 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)

I think circle jerk is fine. In fact I've used it on another post! I'd rather use another term, but have to keep my potty mouth in check regarding these 'people'.

I have a sneaky feeling if JVDS does walk in this case & comes to school in the U.S., he'll finally meet up with some good old fashioned street justice, American style.

4,971 posted on 06/30/2005 7:31:55 AM PDT by demkicker (A skunk sat on a stump; the stump thunk the skunk stunk; the skunk thunk the stump stunk.)

I still think the DJ is holding some information that could help with this investigation. When he came out and spoke to reporters the first time he said "Now I know who my friends are." Possibly referring to Joran's trying to implicate him in N's disappearance?

4,972 posted on 06/30/2005 7:33:12 AM PDT by sarasota

Yeah, I believe in Karma and the great states of Alabama and Mississippi. Both have a stake in this. Both know one of their young women was murdered by him.

4,973 posted on 06/30/2005 7:33:23 AM PDT by cajungirl (no)

I think Papa and the missus had a long talk about Joran and what probably happened, perhaps outside where they couldn't be overheard, and the missus is under no illusions now that J is innocent. There might come a time when she has to choose between supporting Papa or J. If Papa needs to plea bargain to save his own hide...if arrested again.

4,974 posted on 06/30/2005 7:33:39 AM PDT by hershey

Long thread.

Seems the FBI and the guys from Texas didn't find anything.

What's the bottom line?

4,975 posted on 06/30/2005 7:36:16 AM PDT by Coleus ("Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)

Fine then...let the Arubans decide if supporting one boy, (who knows where he put Natalee) is worth American Tourist dollars.

BTW, Jossy Mansur isn't exactly a light weight on Aruba. But even big Jossy is sounding like the case is cold.

We're missing something. And it's right under our noses..darn.

4,976 posted on 06/30/2005 7:38:18 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)

Also, last night the EQUUSearch leader said they'd be looking in waters out from shore today, not close in...

Well, sadly, I think they're staring to look in the right place. (Though, without specific leads, I doubt they'll find her.)

4,977 posted on 06/30/2005 7:41:59 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG

Do you know if they have been searching the caves?

4,978 posted on 06/30/2005 7:42:24 AM PDT by freeperfromnj

Sorry I can't do more than a hit and run post today, but I wanted to post my impressions of last night's news for anyone who didn't get to watch either Hannity and Colmes or Greta's show:

(And please forgive if this information has been posted earlier -- no time today for me to read through previous posts).

First, Hannity and Colmes had a couple of voice stress analyzer people as guests on the show. Apparently these guys have been invited to Aruba (by prosecutors?) to use their equipment,

They demonstrated the program on their laptop, using an audioclip from Greta's sit-down with the van der Sloots the other night.

According to them, their analysis of the portion of the audio that was available showed
(a) that Paulus van der Sloot was being honest when he answered that he believed his son's story
(b) that Mr. vdS was honest when he expressed confidence his son would be exonerated
and (c) that Mr. van der Sloot did show evidence of stress and concern over the effect the intense pressure of interrogation might have on his son.

I was hoping either Rich Lowry (substituting for Hannity) or Alan Colmes would get a chance to ask questions about the track record of this equipment, but the segment was very short and I don't think this got addressed.

One other guest on H & C, Mark Fuhrman, mainly focused his comments on the lack of evidence gathering early-on by the Aruban police, and decried that at length. Toward the end of that segment, Fuhrman indicated that the timeline for Joran (i.e., trying to figure out if Joran could possibly have had time to murder and dispose of the body) was very difficult.

(According to an Aruban reporter Greta spoke to a couple of nights ago, Joran WAS on the school bus at 6:40 am the morning of Natalee's disappearence, and he did take his final exams that day. According to that reporter, he "aced" his finals.)

Second, on Greta's show she interviewed an Aruban man, Charles Croes, who apparently had been enlisted by the Holloway-Twittys to help them find Joran (I wasn't too clear on the connection since I missed the first part of the interview).

This Mr. Croes (apparently no relation to Steve Croes, the party boat guy) helped the Holloway-Twittys figure out who Joran was and where he lived, then accompanied them to the vdS home.

Charles Croes ended up being an eyewitness to the 3 am confrontation of the Holloway-Twittys with Mr. vdS and Joran outside the vdS home -- just after the H-Ts had arrived in Aruba. This was the first meeting of the H-Ts with Mr. vdS and Joran.

Greta asked him about Joran's demeanor during this confrontation. He said Joran seemed nervous but also very concerned about Natalee and that he volunteered to the Holloway-Twittys several times to do whatever he could to help them find Natalee.

Greta also asked Croes if Mr. vdS had told Joran to be quiet. Croes answered that Mr. vdS had told Joran to answer questions only from the police, not from any other people there (apparently there was quite a crowd).

Another question from Greta was whether Joran had discussed at all what Natalee's condition was when he last saw her. He said yes, that Joran had said Natalee was both drunk and had been taking drugs.

She then asked whether Joran admitted to having been drunk and taking drugs too. Croes responded that Joran admitted to having drunk that night. He said Joran also admitted he'd had sex with Natalee.

Also, the matter of where Natalee and Joran had first met came up. I don't remember Croes's answer exactly, but he did say that Joran's story was that they were together in a casino and that Natalee had told Joran she'd lost money gambling. Croes said that Joran was very skilled at poker or blackjack and that Joran then had helped Natalee "recoup" her money.

Croes continued that after they left the casino, when both Joran and Natalee ended up at Carlos and Charlies bar, that Joran said Natalee was dancing with him "very provocatively" and that she was acting "crazy." And that she had asked him for a ride home.

When asked when he last saw Natalee, Joran's story at the point was that he had dropped her off at her hotel.

The last thing I remember from Greta's interview with Charles Croes is that Greta asked him if he was under the impression that either Mr. vdS or Joran seemed to know that Natalee was missing, at that first meeting with the Holloway-Twittys. Croes said no, he didn't think they did.

OK, that's it for me for today. (Sorry I won't be able to answer replies today, just too busy. Hope and pray that by the time I come back, Natalee will have been found.)

4,979 posted on 06/30/2005 7:43:10 AM PDT by gingersnaps

Do they have "plea bargains" in that Banana Republic?

All they need do, is give these boys a polygraph. That's all. And IF Paulus knows his son is soooo innocent, why would he hesitate? Of course, they might need permission from the Muhderland..LOL.

4,980 posted on 06/30/2005 7:44:17 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)

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