SAVE GITMO - RELEASE TERRORISTS - JAIL DEMOCRATS
Posted on 06/17/2005 9:26:27 PM PDT by CHARLITE
Sometimes you hear a discussion or debate in which the participants seem to be getting nowhere, don't understand the subject and can't see the obvious. A prime example of this is the illegal-immigration controversy, and the folks making lots of noise are on conservative talk radio.
The conversations on the subject usually revolve around two main themes: The president has sold out his conservative base, and he is ignoring national security by allowing illegal aliens to swarm over the border. Tune in to any of the far-right talk shows, and you can hear variations on these two themes just about any day of the week.
About the only thing they're ever right about on this contentious subject is that if the U.S. government wanted to do something about illegal immigration, it could.
The truth, of course, is that the government doesn't want to do anything about it — and for good reason.
Our somewhat lax and paradoxical border policy is driven by something very basic: money and economics.
A decade ago, there was a big fuss in California when some concerned citizens decided that the illegal immigrants in their state were a big strain on the budget, and were draining billions of dollars from education and health care. The logic went that if the illegal aliens were stopped from sending their kids to school, and using free medicine, the state would save lots of money that it could then spend on its legal citizens.
An interesting thing happened next. Someone else did a follow-up study, and found that what the state saved in economic costs from the use of migrant labor in agriculture was over three times what it cost in health care and education to those same workers. In other words, illegal aliens were not costing the state a thing, but were instead saving the state tens of billions of dollars a year — and, at the same time, were keeping California's agricultural industry competitive with the rest of the world. The big fuss quietly went away and nothing much changed in California.
The right way to look at illegal immigration is with a pragmatic eye. Simple questions need to be asked: Are Americans willing to pay $4 instead of $1 for a head of lettuce? Do we really want to shore up the borders and then watch inflation grow rapidly? The big owners of agribusiness know the answer to these questions, as do the politicians they support.
So we're stuck with this silly issue that won't go away, and with people who talk tough, but really wouldn't want the situation to change if they realized what the true costs to our economy and society would be.
I think I'd even go one step further and speculate that not only do people in high places understand this issue very well, they've probably got it worked out so that the illegal immigration that is happening is happening in just the right amounts.
Consider how our Southern border is currently monitored: The Border Patrol stays close to the big cities and population centers, then thins out in rural areas and the desert. A coincidence? Doubtful. This policy effectively weeds out the weak and makes the trip tough enough that it discourages families and small children (bad for the U.S. economy), and makes the difficult passage overland a journey that mostly young males would be willing to risk (good for the U.S. economy).
In essence, you have a system that encourages the most desirable illegal immigrants, and discourages the rest. Americans then get the best of both worlds: cheap labor to do the backbreaking work that most in this society wouldn't want to do, and a competitive price for fresh fruits, vegetables and many other things dependent on manual labor.
As a bonus, if the "illegals" cause trouble, they can be deported without enjoying any of the rights a U.S. citizen would enjoy. It's really a pretty simple (if somewhat cynical) deal. And this president knows it, as do all the big ranchers, fruit farmers, grocers and restaurant owners who support him.
What's more, it would appear obvious, looking at recent history, that several presidents before George W. Bush figured out the same thing. To care about national security is to often make compromises. In this case, the angry voice of conservatives in his own party is the price this president pays for continuing a policy that, while difficult to actually articulate, really makes quite good sense.
Greg James of Seattle is the CEO of Topics Entertainment, a Washington-based software company. He majored in international studies at the University of Washington, with a focus on Latin America.
Agree entirely. Most likely, an excuse to travel on student loan dollars.
Another nice example, one of our local communities whose major employee is a packing plant, sent a dozen of their teachers on a sabbatical ("continuing education" naturally) to Mexico for three weeks last summer to "better understand" the culture of their students. At taxpayer expense, of course!
The truly sad thing is that Mexico has no reason not to be quite prosperous. No reason other than the 80 + year rule of the PRI.
They have:
-two coasts
-fertile land
-oil
-uranium
-easy access to the United states AND South America.
-some infrastructure and a strong religious faith.
One thing that bothers me when I see so many aliens is that I bet a lot of these folks ARE the hard working risk takers(yes, there are some criminal scum, too, of course). They should be the ones starting businesses and creating jobs in Mexico. The real question should be how to help the Mexicans perform their own econoimic miracle so that there aren't so many coming up here in the first place. Most of the Mexican nationals I've ran into had better manners and morals than most elected Democratic officials:-)
Illegals not costing the state a thing? Typical response from a liberal who doesn't live here. And this clueless idiot doesn't know that agriculture is employing far fewer workers that it has in the past due to increased mechanization and the demise of small family farms.
This leftist-know-it-all slants his rant to the extreme. He forgets to tell his Seattle readers, the big "fuss" was when a clear majority of millions of TAX-PAYING CITIZENS voted to cut off the free cash and bennies for ILLEGALS. Instead of following the voters will, then Gov Grey Davis got together with a leftist JUDGE and the Proposition was declared UNconstitutional.
And then there's the STUDY that PROVES ILLEGAL ALIENS pay more tax, work harder, cut their grass, wash their cars, and are more honest and religious than all citizens combined !
Strange, but I did a study that proves ILLEGALS commit ten times the crime, ripoff all levels of government cash/bennies (ie the US Taxpayers), violate untold numbers of laws, and carry the most deadly diseases in world history.
Here is some FEC-$ evidence to support my description of the FAR-LEFT LIBERAL writer:
105 . JAMES, GREG 3/26/2004 $2,000.00 SEATTLE, WA 98144 TOPICS ENT [Contribution] PEOPLE FOR PATTY MURRAY U S SENATE CAMPAIGN
[View Image]
106 . James, Greg 3/18/2004 $500.00 Seattle, WA 98144 Topics Ent./Executive [Contribution] INSLEE FOR CONGRESS [View Image]
107 . JAMES, GREG 3/29/2005 $1,500.00 SEATTLE, WA 98144 TOPICS ENT [Contribution] CANTWELL 2006
[View Image] 108 . James, Greg 11/4/2002 $500.00 Seattle, WA 98144 Topics Ent./Executive [Contribution] INSLEE FOR CONGRESS [View Image]
109 . JAMES, GREG 3/17/2004 $500.00 SEATTLE, WA 98144 TOPICS ENT [Contribution] CANTWELL 2006 [View Image]
110 . JAMES, GREG 3/31/2004 $1,000.00 SEATTLE, WA 98144 TOPICS ENT [Contribution] PEOPLE FOR PATTY MURRAY U S SENATE CAMPAIGN [View Image]
111 . James, Greg 5/29/2001 $500.00 Seattle, WA 98144 Topics Ent./Owner [Contribution] INSLEE FOR CONGRESS [View Image]
Damn, we are going to need a mess of illegals to move the load of crap this article is dishing out. (assuming it's a job no American wants.)
As a member of numerous conservation groups and the American Civil Liberties Union, Greg is deeply committed to philanthropic and environmental efforts, donating 5% pre-tax profits to conservation and educational groups.
Does it really take 11 million illegals here already and more on the way to pick the fruits & vegetables?
About the only thing they're ever right about on this contentious subject is that if the U.S. government wanted to do something about illegal immigration, it could.
The truth, of course, is that the government doesn't want to do anything about it
— and for good reason.
Our somewhat lax and paradoxical border policy is driven by something very basic: money and economics.
The government's desire not to do anything concrete about it is self evident. They just hold enough meetings, press conferences and hearings to give appearances of addressing the situation, creating enough activity to mollify the masses before they decide to tar and feather them. The day will come when people of concern and courage wipe the smirk off the politician's faces as they stand before the nation and lie and lie and lie.
If we find it too difficult to remove 11,000,000+ illegals, then let's focus on a much easier task of removing 535 from Congress and 1 from the white house!
bump for later
Give it 90 days, then bury it.
The most pro-illegal alien statistics I've seen indicate a 40% rise in the cost of lettuce-- $1.40, not $4.00. This freaking nimrod's argument is so full of holes, I don't know where to begin.
If we "need" Mexican agricultural workers, then we should have a program which specifically grants seasonal permits to such workers, not an open border arrangement that admits criminals, drug dealers and terrorists.
As Michael Savage says, 'take a drive around illegal immigrant heavy big city neighborhoods at mid-day and see how many are sitting on their front stoops drinking and stoned out of their minds-- then tell me they're all here to work.'
Finally, the author needs to cut this crap of intentionally confusing illegal and legal immigrants. This is the equivalent of equating someone who purchased their diploma from a fradulent mill for $20 and someone who spend years of hard work and tons of money earning one legitimately.
This is specious, steaming crap.
It infers that the labor cost of a legal worker would be $3 per head.
If we assume a "burdened" labor rate of $20 per hour (including taxes, unemployment insurance, etc), if the picker is picking one head of lettuce a minute, that works out to 33 cents per head. And I suspect the actual rate of lettuce-picking is far faster than one head per minute.
I agree, we can move them out, Insteas of giving them $2000 to report in and learn English - place a bounty of $2000.00 on their asses and give them a bus ticket and an escort out of the country!
The CEO is a scofflaw pinhead.
People object because of what is happening to our culture due to immigrants who won't assimilate.
BUMP
The only way the GOP can avoid angering a voting bloc like Prop 187 allegedly did is to pray that liars be struck dead. It was a lying, full-court, wall-to-wall, 24/7 attack, attack, attack! against Prop 187.
The attack, attack, attack! continues to this day and I remind everyone that Mexico's representatives who are prominent in California's politics, like Art Torres, still crow that Prop 187 was "white America's last gasp."
So I have to disagree with that part. The Republicans usually get around 30 percent of the vote of Americans of Hispanic origin if I remember correctly. That is about the percentage that voted for Prop 187. There may have been a little more in 2004 but I counter that almost fifty percent of Americans of Hispanic origin voted for Arizona's Prop 200.
I emphasize Americans because I swear I do not see them as part of a foreign voting block -- though I am not saying that you intended to imply that we should bow to foreigners' and internationalists' wants and desires.
I remember that 1994 campaign. In those days I had a TV. It was a full-court, 24/7 attack, attack, attack! One anti-Prop 187 group offered David Duke a large sum of money to attend a discussion "forum" on Prop 187 -- he of course was to argue for Prop 187 as the camera rolled.
Attack, attack, attack! Moderate Republicans like Jack Kemp and Jeb Bush joined in the attack, attack, attack! MSM employees helped lead the attack, attack, attack!
The only ad for Prop 187 that I remember was the "revolving door" ad. It was very effective showing the TRUTH that foreigners come and go as they please. That was TRUE. Yet, the attack, attack, attack! campaign has spun the ad to be one of the worst, most vicious, bigoted ads ever produced.
Well that's at least one true sentence in the entire article. What did Fox say, "Mexico is going to be one nation with America and Canada." To ensure this Fox and Bush need many many Mexican votes, which they will have. Six thousand illegals come to America every day. All will be made citizens before Bush leaves office. And America as we have known it will be no more.
:~)
The real driving force for immigration changes since the 60s is racial and internationalist ideology, not economics. Does anyone think that the leftists who were its chief instigators and are its chief supporters and who block any attempt to control the border are driven by pro-business sentiment?
really wouldn't want the situation to change if they realized what the true costs to our economy and society would be.
What are the true costs?
The late Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the dominions of the Habsburgs and the Romanoffs, among others, all presided over a kind of rainbow coalition of nations and peoples, who for the most part managed to live happily because their secret compulsions to spill each other's blood was restrained by the overwhelming power of the despots and dynasties who ruled them.Political freedom relies on a shared political culture as much as on the oppositions and balances that social differentiation creates, and when the common culture disintegrates under the impact of mass migrations, only institutionalized force can hold the regime together.
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