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To: Swordmaker

Is he wrong? Simple question; would Jobs have gone on to form Apple if he stayed in school? I think not.

How about Bill Gates? He dropped out, and didn't do too shabby with Microsoft.

And we have Michael Dell, dropping out of UT (Austin) and is barely squeaking by with Dell.

So, let's all tell these people how bad they are for dropping out; I dare say the least of them have exceeded the best of us.

Timing is everything, there's no substitute for hard work; and although education is important, sometimes all it takes is a good idea and some hard work.


3 posted on 06/13/2005 6:36:29 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
...Jobs ... Bill Gates... Michael Dell... there is no substitute for hard work...

Note that none of these work for someone else... they went to work for themselves. They didn't have to impress an employer with a sheepskin.

5 posted on 06/13/2005 6:40:08 PM PDT by Swordmaker (tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: Hodar

"although education is important, sometimes all it takes is a good idea and some hard work."

I'm not so sure modern "education" is so useful either.


6 posted on 06/13/2005 6:40:15 PM PDT by Betaille
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To: Hodar

"Timing is everything, there's no substitute for hard work; and although education is important, sometimes all it takes is a good idea and some hard work."

This appeals to me. I love stories about mavericks, and you'll notice that they all had hard times that LOOKED as if they were going to be failures.

The whole college track mentality wants nothing but a smooth glide up, and nothing too daring to upset that trajectory. But this fits with the majority of us because of our human desire for security.


16 posted on 06/13/2005 7:18:52 PM PDT by avenir (Don't insult my intelligentness!)
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To: Hodar

Success is largely determined by individual drive.

I don't think college makes anyone successful, unfortunately, many of our students think the possession of a degree will guarantee them success in life. Sorry, those days are long over.

That said, I think it would be interesting to look at Steve Job's Reed College classmates. I have a hunch.
Those who stuck it out to graduation will largely be middling successes, or at least in careers that feed their families. Some will be self employed and successful. A portion of the graduates will be bums living with/mooching off of their parents
The drop outs will consist of Steve Jobs, and a couple other lesser success stories. The rest of the dropouts will be in low to mid end jobs or scraping by in their own businesses, with probably the same portion of drop outs as graduates living/mooching off of their moms.
In the end success comes down to the person, not to the degree.

That said, I try to impress upon students the need to complete their degree. It's not difficult, and in a 21st century economy, people without some level of higher education are going to be increasingly limited in their opportunities.
Picture an American economy with dwindling agricultural and manufacturing sectors, and then explain to me where the ernest young man with a HS diploma or GED fits into that picture. While an individual may be a success without an education, I'd suggest that the BA or BS has become the modern High School diploma. When 30-40% of their age cohort has at least a four year degree, those kids left on the outside will get the shaft.

The world these kids were born into (1980's)does not exist anymore, and the cushy middle class is a historical footnote. You can either live in a mansion or clean the mansion. Those are your choices in the 21st century. The middle class neighborhoods are giving way to low-end slums and gated communities. There's numerous causes for this, and we can all argue about the root cause: the welfare state mentality, illegal immigration, irrational economic policies, but that's not the point. The point is the students deserve honest answers, so no, I don't recommend dropping out of college. If they're that talented, they'll be that talented after they finish school.

I'm not trying to scare students, I'm trying to get students to understand that the decisions they make today will determine many of their life choices in 2025.


19 posted on 06/13/2005 7:39:22 PM PDT by Will_Zurmacht
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To: Hodar

well a bachelors degree today is the equivalent of a HS degree for the previous generation. Most people dont even use their degrees, it is more a measure used for salary calcualtion and to separate the rice from the husk.


20 posted on 06/13/2005 8:32:29 PM PDT by minus_273
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To: Hodar
So, let's all tell these people how bad they are for dropping out; I dare say the least of them have exceeded the best of us.

Richard Branson was also a dropout.

26 posted on 06/14/2005 6:36:50 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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