Canada has four-tiered health care

The Edmonton Sun ^ | sat., June 11,2005 | Mindelle Jacobs

[traviskicks]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1117666821519_24/?hub=Canada

I had to find this story about the guy going to jail to get heart surgey. Someone needs to pass this on to rush. I can't wait to write about it.

[Paulus Invictus]

Perhaps you need a "Tax paying Wait Time" equal to the wait for medical services. That would wake them up.

[fanfan]

Thanks for finding it.

Great post!

[fanfan]

LOL. They have a nice place for people who don't pay their taxes on time. :-)

It is sad, when one has to choose between being lawfull, or getting important health care.

[fanfan]

I loved your post #5.

[fanfan]

In Canada the socialist politicians and top scumbag bureaucrats all get immediate care at special hospitals and clinics in Ottawa unavilable to the moron general population that votes for these vermin.

Art Eggelton (sp) was sent to Toronto for prostrate (cancer)surgery because people were waiting over 12 months for it in Ottawa. He had the procedure 2-3 weeks after diagnosis, IIRC.

[speekinout]

Do I understand US health care correctly?.....If you can afford it, you are expected to have insurance; if you can't afford it, you will still receive timely medical treatment.

Not quite. The richest people don't bother with insurance. They just get what they want when they want.
Insurance is for the middle classes, who could be wiped out by a major illness. There are different kinds of policies, but most people use the one subsidized by their employer.
Medicare insurance covers everyone over 65, and Medicaid covers the very poor.

In life threatening situations, you get care and they ask about payment later.

What a lot of people forget is that we have some really top-notch children's hospitals that treat seriously ill children without regard to their ability to pay.

IMO, we could do better if we had tort reform. Doctors have to pay so much for insurance against law suits that their prices are much higher than need be. They also order expensive and needless tests just to cover them in case of lawsuits.

[traviskicks]

the government requires businesses to pay for health care because they offer large tax breaks that businesses must take in order to remain competitive. If not, there would probably be personal accounts, which make more sense from a market point of view - but since when did government care about a market point of view?

[speekinout]

the government requires businesses to pay for health care because they offer large tax breaks that businesses must take in order to remain competitive.

Not exactly true. WalMart is the poster child for this. They don't offer health benefits, and they are competitive.
Other companies would do the same thing if they weren't hampered by Union contracts.

[NavVet]

Canada...Peacekeeping...That's a good one.

[shaggy eel]

and if you don't, the government still provides the surgery for free, but you will have to queue. I know the CBC did a special feature on the NZ system a few years ago and they seem so outraged at the "right-wingedness" of our current system.

,,, for all the Americans - "queue" means wait in line. Tommy Douglas would turn in his grave, I'm sure.

[NZerFromHK]

You have reminded me that health care costs in countries with universal "free" health systems are also on the rise. The reason? Everything, from diagnostic tests, etc, is subsidized by the government, and patients and doctors prescribing the tests don't need to pay a single cent over these procedures. When you feel it is "free" you are prone to abuse it.

The same goes with prescription drugs. Once upon a time all prescribed drugs were truly "free"! The results? Rising costs due to drugs, and the New Zealand Labour government introduced a flat prescription drug charge in 1985 and it brought the costs under control to an extent.

http://rogerdouglas.org.nz/b020306.htm

[traviskicks]

Not exactly true. WalMart is the poster child for this. They don't offer health benefits, and they are competitive.
---

That's only to their lowest paid, mostly part time, workers. A majority of their workers still get wallmart health care and the company still gets huge tax breaks for this health care. But you're right, my statement before was a bit too general.

[cgbg]

In a socialist system there must always be queues.

That also leads to bribing of bureaucrats to move up in the queue.

When the market is not the method of allocating scarce resources then a new black market takes its place.

Thus it has always been, is now, and will always be until Hillary gets ahold of all the embryos and brainwashes them from birth to be perfect socialist citizens. :-(

[cgbg]

Why shouldn't the health care system have enough doctors, nurses, and technicians to provide fast health care to everyone who needs it? Every other industry does that

Your post is seriously incorrect on many levels.

Services are driven by economic forces. Price drives supply. There is no such thng as "enough" and "fast". There is just what people choose to pay for that will drive supply. In a socialist system the bureaucrats arbitrarily decide how many doctors and nurses the system will support. Sometimes they guess right, somethimes wrong, as needs change over time. However, neither capitalism nor socialism are steady state systems. This means that is what is an adequate supply today may not be tomorrow in the real world. A major earthquake could hit--then more doctors are needed than the day before.

Your post is also troubling because it fails to recognize that there are shortages in supply periodically in all parts of the economy. Price addresses that issue--for example, higher gas prices during peak driving times. If gas were provided by the government then they would guess the right supply and would be wrong from time to time.

The world does not exist to meet your consumer whims. Either you pay for what you want when you want it (capitalism) or you point a gun at your neighbor's head and steal it when you want it (socialism).

Please understand, though, that if you choose socialism your neighbor gets to rip you off as well.

[Brilliant]

What a bunch of bunk. The nation's health care problems are not due to "peak" demand. Supply has not been able to meet demand for decades. And it's not due to the fact that we aren't willing to pay for it either. We pay up the nose. Health care consumes more than 1/7 of our economy.

The sad fact is that whether you're in Canada or the US, the health care industry is not market driven. It's the most regulated industry in the country. Of course, it's more true in Canada than the US, but the regulators have made a royal mess of things on both sides of the border.

[cgbg]

Look--health care could be 90% of the Canadian economy and there could still be a shortage of doctors and nurses.

That is how socialism works--because medical care is "free" which means demand approaches infinity which means that unless supply approaches infinity there will always be a shortage.

Of course, any doctor or nurse with half a brain already has left Canada. A quick visit to a Michigan doctor's office will confirm that for you. They apparently believe they were not fairly compensated for their efforts. With a huge casehold of patients seeking "free" care and no market determining a value for their services they feel they are underpaid.

Since socialism dosen't yet rule the entire world they had the option to leave and took it.

[Brilliant]

The fact that there is no monetary out of pocket expense doesn't mean that demand becomes infinite and that it will always be impossible to satisfy demand. There is always a cost, even when it is "free." In Canada, the cost is that you've gotta wait in line for months before getting basic treatment.

You can say that there is no problem... You can say we pay a lot for health care, and we should... You can say that not everyone can afford the health care they want or need, but maybe that's the way it should be.

But I don't wear those rose-colored glasses. There is a serious problem with the health care industry, and it's one that can't be fixed by more government, but rather by less government.

When government regulates an industry as heavily as our government does, it effectively blocks or discourages some people who would go into the industry from doing so. And that means that there is inadequate capacity to supply demand at free market prices, so prices go up, and those who are least willing or able to pay the higher prices get pushed out of the market.

That's what's been happening for decades, and our politicians just keep adding new bandaids to the wounds they've inflicted over the years. They've got no clue how to fix the problem. More regulation is their answer to every problem.

[cgbg]

I agree with your last post. Unfortunately for you Socialist governments don't just fade away because they have followed stupid policies.

Canada is not Rumania--and until the average Canadian is ready to join an unruly uncivilized mob that travels to Ottawa to personally strangle every socialist legislator and enjoy watching the blood as they tear them limb from limb then every day will just get a little worse. I figure it will take at least fifty years for that to happen.

You see, socialism is violence--and violence is the only language the socialist understands.

Freedom is not free--you will have to fight for it and earn it.

[Brilliant]

I hate to say it, but I think the US health care system is only a few years behind in that area. As the media is so fond of saying, the Canadians are the "leader" in this exercise. They are leading the entire world into the abyss, and the fools in Washington are following.