Posted on 06/05/2005 12:59:12 AM PDT by GOPXtreme20
Not tryin' to start anything with ya- just need to ask you- have you ever been an owner/operator of a business?
Absolutely. In the last two years I have seen the landscaping work at my office complex go from being done by college age Americans to illegal aliens. Plus for all those on fr who bash American youth workers as being lazy worthless punks, the college kids did a much better job in half the time and with a better attitude.
Mostly the illegals are older and have taken all the entry level jobs because they only pay $8/hr. These jobs have been paying that wage for 20 years.
There is plenty of blame to go around. It is a systemic problem. I think it's been created by the education industry. They have propagated the lie that you can only be successful with a college education. You used to be able to get a good job with a bachelor's degree. Now, you must have a Master's or better. Why, for example does a grade school teacher, once certified to teach, go on and get their master's degree?
It's a scam that you have to keep going to school. For some professions yes. But not all as they are playing it today.
Children are told from early on that they must get an education; that they are better than everyone else; they have much more information than before and their parents provide almost everything for them. And, even those that don't have everything provided go to college and see that almost everyone else does. That creates some issues too.
It's not a simple solution. The problems have been created and compounded for generations.
The answer is not providing near-slave labor to do those jobs. It will require a lot changes. Frankly, I think nothing will change until there is a major economic crash in this country. Then humility will once again be part of the equation.
According to the report, the low-pay, low-skill jobs that have historically gone to high school students are now held by recent immigrants -- adding 1.8 million people to the workforce since 2000 -- older workers returning to the job market, and jobseekers who can't find work in their fields due to the sluggish economy.
Immigrants doing jobs our high school students don't want to do...
I always assumed that I would be working around a school schedule and I pushed academics hard. I even paid JUCO tuition costs. If someone wanted to play sports, that was their choice but it was probably going to preclude them having a job, at least with me. The work was there when the work was there.
I agree that government, especially local government, is a major obstacle. When you have a business everyone wants to run it for you but that is a separate problem.
I once had an employee who didn't show for a critical shift because she didn't have a ride. She lived across the street and a block and a half down. How can you compare that with a kid who just walked 600 miles for a chance to bust his butt working for you.
I don't know anyone who wouldn't rather have someone like them or like their sons and daughters working. I'm an old timer and over the years we lowered standards and cut corners until everything was the equivalent french fry pictures on a McDonalds register. Still the kids couldn't cut it. It seemed to happen at the same time that educational standards dropped. I don't know if education is to blame or if work standards and education suffered from the same root malady. Whatever the cause, these kids are in for a very rude awakening.
Okay, then lets go with your post's basic premise- paraphrasing- "The education industry has propagated a lie that you can "only" be successful with a college education." I will stop here, and remind you that this article is talking about summer employment for teens. I will assume that this would mean the average 13 to 19 yr olds. So, you do see where I'm heading with this conversation right? Regardless, some folks on this thread actually live in King County, and even Seattle, and say there are abundant "help wanted" signs. Now, it has been a couple of years since I was there, and even then- at the time every democrat was screaming up and down the west coast there is no employment available- I saw that there was plenty of work to be found- whether entry level, skilled trade or white collar.
Thanks bush more jobs 'americans' wont do..
Red tape, regulation. Remember the story about the little girl whose lemonade stand was shut down by the authorities for lack of a permit?
My point is that it's a mindset that starts at a very early age. Also, children today are so overloaded with outside interests that they don't want to work. Those that are looking for work can't find it. The jobs are being taken by illegals and people who need take any job available.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Minimum-wage laws simply do not work and have the opposite effect.
Interesting response. You say that on one hand- laziness is an early mindset ingrained by- who - the parents & teachers? Then you say that kids are overworked/overloaded by outside interests- by who- the parents and teachers? Then you say that all the jobs are being taken by illegals and poor folk- well just who is hiring these people- the parents or teachers? Your arguments for victimization don't hold water, much less common sense. Although your expressed attitude is in common with Jamie's little excuse ridden spew on how hard life is in a capitalist society- in the most affluent area of the Northwest. An area in total control of liberal democrats, by the way.
The inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage is 26% lower in 2004 than it was in 1979. In addition, comparing the wages of minimum wage workers to average hourly wages, we find that the wages of minimum wage workers have not kept up with the wages of other workers. The minimum wage is 33% of the average hourly wage of American workers, the lowest level since 1949.
To say that this is a problem of wage is silly as the minimum wage is much lower than it has historically been.
Where did I say anything about laziness? I said that parents tell their children, based on the education industry's claim that only an educated person will get ahead, that these jobs are beneath them. The parents play a role in this.
Then you say that kids are overworked/overloaded by outside interests- by who- the parents and teachers?
Yes. Of course the parents and the teachers. Parents want their children to be busy. But not working at these jobs. Not all but most.
Then you say that all the jobs are being taken by illegals and poor folk- well just who is hiring these people- the parents or teachers?
Huh? Where do you get this correlation. Businesses are hiring the illegals. I didn't say poor folk either. I said people who really need a job and will take a lesser paying job in the interim.
You really are hell bent on vilifying anyone who claims that jobs are more difficult to come by since the market has been flooded with cheap immigrant, both legal and illegal, labor.
Your arguments for victimization don't hold water, much less common sense.
I didn't claim victimization. Why be insulting? I was agreeing with the premise of the article that immigrants are taking up low paying jobs. Try to be less accusatory.
Don't forget arrogant. Great post. My former business had a reputation for excellent customer service. If I still had that business; I wouldn't even THINK of hiring anyone under 25 nowadays...
Yep, you are correct! I was way off the mark. Apparently, my rubberband fan needs rewinding, so my tin foil beret won't get so overheated. Thanks for reminding me.
Because, unlike many of them, their great-grandfathers could read, write, spell, and reason; most had already begun learning a trade and virtually all would have been repulsed at the thought of government having to take care of them. In addition to better schools, they had more intact extended families, and while far poorer than today's children, they had far richer personal and religious values. Answer your question?
I had a job at the movie theater for awhile. These days It takes a willingness to be a party to evil to work in that field for long. Frankly there is no place one can work these days without either compromising their morality or worse.
DB, I'm open to coments about the minimum wage, but I find it hard to beleive that it's a serious problem. What would you want to pay summer job workers, $2 to $4 per hour? Yikes!
I oppose raising it, because we are generally talking about temporary youth jobs. I realize the democrats demagogue this issue insufferably. I'm just not a big fan of turning it into a bidding war to see who could pay the least in certain demographic areas.
It's my opinion that we do have a problem. Our society coddles our children from the time they are born. The child advocacy groups have just about totally ruined them.
Why would you think they would listen to you, when they've not been asked to listen and alter their behaviors since birth? Then these idiots bear new children and having no moral base whatsoever, are charged with raising a firmly grounded new generation.
Having said that, my wife was a volunteer director at a large medical center in a metropolitan area. She did get some flakes to be sure, but she also got some incredibly driven and gifted kids. Some of these kids went on to be dentists, physicians and of course adapt to many other productive vocations.
I do believe their is a problem. It may be better or worse in various regions.
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