Posted on 05/29/2005 3:58:59 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45
Having a go round with an atheist who flung this at me.
Can anyone expound on the overall context and meaning ?
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson
"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, John A. Haught
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." -- Benjamin Franklin, _Articles_Of_Belief_and_Acts_of_Religion_, Nov.20, 1728
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." -- Benjamin Franklin , _Works_ Vol.VII, p.75
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects of Christianity, we shall find few that have not in turns been persecutors and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution on the Roman church, but preactied i on the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice both here (England) and in New England"--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- Benjamin Franklin, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught
"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan. 1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_Virginia_, _Jefferson_the_President:_First_Term_1801-1805_, Dumas Malon, Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1970, p. 191
"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546
utter nonsense. You are a victim of lies and revisionist history promoted by modern socialists who are of necessity anti-Christian.
Thomas Jefferson sounded far more of an evangelist than George Bush II.
Quotes by Thomas Jefferson
(from the University of Virginia)
2143. DEITY, Assistance Implored. --We commit our injuries to the even-handed justice of that Being, Who doth no wrong, earnestly beseeching Him to illuminate the councils, and prosper the endeavors of those to whom America hath confided her hopes, that through their wise direction we May again see reunited the blessings of liberty, property, and harmony with Great Britain. --
TITLE: Address Virginia House of Burgesses to Lord Dunmore.
EDITION: Ford ed., i, 459.
DATE: June. 1775
2144. DEITY, Assistance Implored. -- [continued] . We devoutly implore assistance of Almighty God to conduct us happily through this great conflict. --
TITLE: Declaration on Taking up Arms.
EDITION: Ford ed., i, 476.
DATE: July. 1775
2145. DEITY, Beneficence of. -- It hath pleased the Sovereign Disposer of all human events to give to this [Revolution] appeal an issue favorable to the rights of the States. --
TITLE: Proposed Constitution for Virginia.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 441.
EDITION: Ford ed., iii, 321.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1783
2146. DEITY, Deliver of the Distressed. -- <b>When the measure of their [the Slaves] tears shall be full, when their groans shall have involved heaven itself in darkness, doubtless, a God of justice will awaken to their distress, and by diffusing light and liberality among their oppressors, or, at length, by His exterminating thunder, manifest His attention to the things of this world, and that they are not left to the guidance of a blind fatality.</b> --
TITLE: To M. de Meunier.
EDITION: Washington ed. ix, 279.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 185.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1786
2147. DEITY, Existence of. -- I think that every Christian sect gives a great handle to atheism by their general dogma, that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of a God. Now, one-sixth of mankind only are supposed to be Christians; the other five-sixths, then, who do not believe in the Jewish and Christian revelation, are without a knowledge of the existence of a God! This gives completely a gain de cause to the disciples of Ocellus, Timoeus, Spinosa, Diderot and D'Holbach. The argument which they rest on as triumphant and unanswerable is, that in every hypothesis of cosmogony, you must admit an eternal pre-existence of something; and according to the rule of sound philosophy, you are never to employ two principles to solve a difficulty when one will suffice. They say, then, that it is more simple to believe at once in the eternal pre-existence of the world, as it is now going on, and may forever go on by the principle of reproduction which we see and witness, than to believe in the eternal pre-existence of an ulterior cause, or Creator of the world, a Being whom we see not and know not, of whose form, substance, and mode, or place of existence, or of action, no sense informs us, no power of the mind enables us to delineate or comprehend. On the contrary, I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in all its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces; the structure of our earth itself, with its distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere; animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles; insects, mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth; the mineral substances, their generation and uses; it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe, that there is in all this, design, cause, and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power. to maintain the universe in its course and order. Stars, well known, have disappeared, new ones have come into view; comets in their incalculable courses, may run foul of suns and planets, and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals are become extinct; and were there no restoring power. all existences might extinguish successively, one by one, until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful agent, that, of the infinite numbers of men who have existed through all time, they have believed, in the proportion of a million at least to a unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a
-249- [Col 1] Creator, rather than in that of a self-existent universe. Surely this unanimous sentiment renders this more probable, than that of the few in the other hypothesis. Some early Christians, indeed, have believed in the coeternal pre-existence of both the Creator and the world, without changing their relation of cause and effect. That this was the opinion of St. Thomas, we are informed by Cardinal Toleta. --
small | largeTITLE: To John Adams.
EDITION: Washington ed. vii, 281.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1823
2148. DEITY, Favor Invoked. -- <b>May that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe, lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity. --</b>
TITLE: First Inaugural Address.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 5.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 6.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1801
2149. DEITY, Goodness of. -- When we assemble together to consider the state of our beloved country, our just attentions are first drawn to those pleasing circumstances which mark the goodness of that Being from whose favor they flow, and the large measure of thankfulness we owe for His bounty. --
TITLE: Second Annual Message.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 15.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 181.
DATE: Dec. 1802
2150. DEITY, Gratitude to the. -- While we devoutly return thanks to the Beneficent Being who has been pleased to breath into our sister nations the spirit of conciliation and forgiveness, we are bound with peculiar gratitude to be thankful to Him that our own peace has been preserved. --
TITLE: First Annual Message.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 6.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 109.
DATE: Dec. 1801
2151. DEITY, Inalienable Rights and. -- All men are [* * *] endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights. --
TITLE: Declaration of Independence as Drawn by Jefferson.
2152. DEITY, Liberty and the. -- We [* * *] most solemnly, before God and the world declare that, [* * *] the arms we have been compelled to assume we will use with perseverance, exerting to their utmost energies all those powers which our Creator hath given us, to preserve that liberty which He committed to us in sacred deposit [* * *] . --
TITLE: Declaration on Taking up Arms.
EDITION: Ford ed., i, 476.
DATE: July. 1775
2153. DEITY, National Equality and the. -- When [* * *] it becomes necessary for one people [* * *] to assume among the powers of the earth the [* * *] equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them [* * *] . --
TITLE: Declaration of Independence as Drawn by Jefferson.
2154. DEITY, An Overruling. -- We are not in a world ungoverned by the laws and the power of a Superior Agent. Our efforts are in His hand, and directed by it; and He will give them their effect in His own time. 138 --
TITLE: To David Barrow.
EDITION: Washington ed. vi, 456.
EDITION: Ford ed., ix, 516.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1815
2155. DEITY, Prayers to. -- I offer my sincere prayers to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, that He may long preserve our country in freedom and prosperity. --
TITLE: To Benjamin Waring.
EDITION: Washington ed. iv, 379.
PLACE: Washington
DATE: March. 1801
2156. DEITY, Prayers to. -- [continued] . I join in addressing Him whose Kingdom ruleth over all, to direct the administration of their affairs to their own greatest good. --
TITLE: Reply to Vermont Address.
EDITION: Washington ed. iv, 419.
PLACE: Washington
DATE: 1801
2157. DEITY, Prayers to. -- [Further continued] . That the Supreme Ruler of the universe may have our country under His special care, will be among the latest of my prayers. --
TITLE: R. to A. Virginia Assembly.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 149.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1809
2158. DEITY, Protection of. -- <b>We join you [Washington] in commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God, beseeching Him to dispose the hearts and minds of its citizens to improve the opportunity afforded them of becoming a happy and respectable nation. And for you we address to Him our earnest prayers, that a life so beloved may be fostered with all His care; that your days may be happy as they have been illustrious; and that He will finally give you that reward which this world cannot give.</b> 139 --
TITLE: Address of Congress to General Washington.
EDITION: Rayner's Life of Jefferson, 226.
2159. DEITY, Protection of. -- [continued] . I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the Common Father and Creator of man. --
TITLE: R. to A. Danbury Baptists.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 114.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1802
2160. DEITY, Submission to. -- Whatever is to be our destiny, wisdom as well as duty, dictates that we should acquiesce in the will of Him whose it is to give and take away, and be contented in the enjoyment of those who are still permitted to be with us. --
TITLE: To John Page.
EDITION: Washington ed. iv, 547.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1804
2161. DEITY, Supplications to. -- I shall need the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, Who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land, and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; Who has covered our infancy with His providence, and our riper years with His wisdom and power; and to whose goodness I ask you to join with me in supplications, that He will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures, that whatsoever they do shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations. --
TITLE: Second Inaugural Address.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 45.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 347.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1805
2162. DEITY, Supplications to. -- [continued] . I return your kind prayers with supplications to the same Almighty Being for your future welfare and that of our beloved country. --
TITLE: R. to A. of Baltimore Baptists.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 138.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1808
-250- [Col 1]
small | large
2163. DEITY, Supplications to. -- [Further continued] . I supplicate the Being in whose hands we all are, to preserve our country in freedom and independence, and to bestow on yourselves the blessings of His favor. --
TITLE: R. to A. North Carolina Legislature.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 126.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1808
2164. DEITY, Supplications to. -- [Further continued] . I join in supplications to that Almighty Being, Who has heretofore guarded our councils, still to continue His gracious benedictions towards our country. --
TITLE: R. to A. New London Republicans.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 152.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1809
6487. PEACE, The Deity and. -- I bless the Almighty Being, Who, in gathering together the waters under the heavens into one place, divided the dry land of your hemisphere from the dry lands of ours, and said, at least be there peace. --
TITLE: To Earl of Buchan.
EDITION: Washington ed. iv, 493.
PLACE: Washington
DATE: 1803
I don't think the word carloads would be used in Adams lifetime, he died in 1826. Any way to find out when that word came into usage. It is probably a railroad term. To me it's like someone in the 1940s talking about a website. -Tom
Have you never taken a history course in college? You may not have learned anything, but what you have learned is not truth. I suggest you research it for yourself as I have, you will definitely see not most of the founding fathers are deists.
Yes, most do reject the Word.
Nice catch.
I didn't think so.
But I'd think if you were gonna embrace the Constitution, which I think is a goos thing, you'd become familiar with it.
Read Article 6, Clause 2.
Quotes by Thomas Jefferson
(from the University of Virginia)
7084. PROVIDENCE, An approving. --We remark with special satisfaction those circumstances which, under the smiles of Providence, result from the skill, industry and order of our citizens, managing their own affairs in their own way and for their own use, unembarrassed by too much regulations, unoppressed by fiscal exactions. --
TITLE: Second Annual Message.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 15.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 182.
DATE: Dec. 1802
7085. PROVIDENCE, Goodness of. -- Providence in His goodness gave it [the yellow fever] an early termination [* * *] and lessened the number of victims which have usually fallen before it. --
TITLE: Fifth Annual Message.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 461.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 386.
DATE: Dec. 1805
7086. PROVIDENCE, Gratitude to. -- Let us bow with gratitude to that kind Providence which [* * *] guarded us from hastily entering into the sanguinary contest [between France and England] . --
TITLE: Third Annual Message.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 28.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 272.
DATE: Oct. 1803
7087. PROVIDENCE, Human happiness and. -- An overruling Providence [* * *] by all its dispensations proves that it delights in the happiness of man here and his greater happiness hereafter. --
TITLE: First Inaugural Address.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 3.
EDITION: Ford ed., viii, 4.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1801
7088. PROVIDENCE, A just. -- You [General Washington] have persevered till these United States, aided by a magnanimous king and nation, have been enabled, under a just Providence, to close the war in freedom, safety, and independence. [* * *] We join you in commending the interests of our dearest country to the protection of Almighty God, beseeching Him to dispose the hearts and minds of its citizens to improve the opportunity afforded them of becoming a happy and respectable nation. 407 --
TITLE: Congress to Washington on Surrendering his Commission.
DATE: Dec. 23, 1783
7089. PROVIDENCE, Prayers to. -- I pray that that Providence in whose hands are the nations of the earth, may continue towards ours His fostering care, and bestow on yourselves the blessings of His protection and favor. --
TITLE: R. to A. Massachusetts Legislature.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 117.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1807
7090. PROVIDENCE, Slavery and. -- We must await with patience the workings of an overruling Providence, and hope that that is preparing the deliverance of these, our suffering brethren [Slaves] . --
TITLE: To M. de Meunier.
EDITION: Washington ed. ix, 279.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 185.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1786
See Deity and God.
7091. PROVIDENCE, Supplicating. -- I supplicate a protecting Providence to watch over your own and our country's freedom and welfare. --
TITLE: R. to A. N. Y. Tammany Society.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 127.
DATE: Feb. 1808
7092. PROVIDENCE, Supplicating. -- [continued] . I sincerely supplicate that overruling Providence which governs the destinies of men and nations, to dispense His choicest blessings on yourselves and our beloved country. --
TITLE: R. to A. Massachusetts Citizens.
EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 161.
PLACE: [none given]
DATE: 1809
7985. SLAVES (Emancipation), Providence and. -- We must await with patience the workings of an overruling Providence, and hope that that is preparing the deliverance of these, our suffering brethren. When the measure of their tears shall be full, when their groans shall have involved heaven itself in darkness, doubtless a God of justice will awaken to their distress, and by diffusing light and liberality among their oppressors, or, at length, by His exterminating thunder, manifest His attention to the things of this world, and that they are not left to the guidance of a blind fatality. --
TITLE: To M. de Meunier.
EDITION: Washington ed. ix, 279.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 185.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1786
The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. (so much for atheism)
The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind.
--Thomas Jefferson, who no orthodox Christian was no enemy of Christ.
not to forget John Jays'response to Rev.Dr.Morse1 Jan.1813
Whether our religion permits a Christian to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideraiton than it seems yet to have generally recieved, either from th eclergy or the laity.It appears to me ,that that the prophet said to Jehosephat about his attachment to Ahab, *"Shouldst thou help the ungodly,and love them that hate the lord?"-2 Chron.xix.2 Affords a salutary lesson on another intersting topic.
Although the mere expediency of public measures may not be a proper subject for th epulpit,yet in my opinion ,it is the right and the duty of our pastors to press the observance of all moral and religious duties,and to animadvert on every course of conduct which may be repugnant to them."-The Life Of John Jay,by his son William Jay American Foundation Publications. ,2000(from the 1833 original)
Do you have a point?
Read most of those quotes and it's quite obvious they hated Christianity for what it had became and not for what was preached in the bible. I fully agree with them.
You must elaborate on these tricks, the precepts of Christ, Christ speaks throughout the "gospels" so how is one to discern which are "good" precepts and not "tricks"?
Yes Christianity has been corrupted my "mens doctrine" but the Bible is the infalliable Word of God, unchanged....Jefferson would have changed his position if he had viewed the dead sea scrolls. The truth is Jefferson wanted to follow the commands he agreed with, as most people do.
Second editionRevised Founding Fathers,by M.E.Braford
fairly documents that many of the founders were Christians.
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