Posted on 05/27/2005 10:53:33 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
I oppose the NRST because it'll turn into a VAT and it'll be alongside the income tax.
Waiting for the obligatory cut-and-paste NRST propaganda...
With a Flat Tax that IRS is still in place and can audit you, therefore it is still a bad choice.
National sales tax. Get rid of the income tax altogether. No value added tax, just a straight sales tax with a limit of 10 percent maixmum, no deductions for anyone and an abolishment of the 16th amendment.
BS. If he was serious, it would be a reality by now.
And how do you figure that, 3 months ago Bush whispered a bit about social security reform and the press politically lynched him.
So Bush is playing real low key on tax reform/overhaul, he has a group going around the country getting ideas on what to do about taxes and they will be finished next month or so.
Things have not played out yet, give a few more months.
I think we will see a VAT and the income tax essentially unchanged. The Europeans have shown that the VAT works very nicely as an import duty without triggering GATT.
I don't expect a national sales tax, too much heat from state and local government followed by selective enforcement by local governments and a "reform" scandal followed by a truly huge new Federal VAT enforcement bureaucracy. So why not just jump the in between steps. Chagrin.
A flat tax will still mean we're paying about 40% of our income in taxes. The mathematically challenged can't understand the concept of imbedded taxes and they're too in love with the idea of income redistribution as long as it's flowing into their pockets.
I oppose the NRST because it'll turn into a VAT and it'll be alongside the income tax.
Your crystal ball is abit cloudy I see.
Aren't you aware that the Flat Tax is a subtraction method VAT coupled with a progessive income tax, retains the SS/Medicare wage taxes as well as keeps the entire income tax as it exists today as an option for those who find that gives the lower taxes than the Flat Tax would.
Of course the real nasty is that it can make no provision for removing the IRS, in fact, actually requires the IRS to grow and work harder at making sure us peons are reporting and paying the proper amount of tax under a much more complex system than even exists now. Better take a close look at what you are supporting in FlatTax HR1040, and what it has become with Critters looking for a way to make it more palatable to the American people to garner support for it.
I'd much rather have the FairTax NRST with as provided for in HR25 with 10 times the support in Congress and growing popularity with the public. A tax system that totally does away with the IRS, federal income taxes, SS/Medicare payroll taxes, AMT, capital gains tax, and taxes on intrest income, and repeals the gift/estate tax totally.
By the way, no retail sales tax has ever been known to turn into a VAT. The vat was specifically designed to replace business turnover and transaction taxes on business-business sales and is a requirement for membership in the EU as a replacement for the old European turnover taxes. The VAT is irrelavent to the existance of retail sales taxes. In fact the main reason the use of VAT have been expanding in the socialist push for a Global Economy for its qualities of border adjustability and compatibility with income tax systems in most GATT/WTO nations.
An NRST blows away VAT advantages in international trade by not taxing manufactures hence our exports in the first place, giving our own manufacturers subtantial advantage over their foreign competition, providing a tax haven attracting manufacturing back to the U.S.
I'll take an NRST over the Flat Tax anyday.
Waiting for the obligatory cut-and-paste NRST propaganda...
I certainly wouldn't want to disappoint you, so here's my standing ping for tax reform threads.
A Taxreform bump for you all.
If you would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25), offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a retail sales tax:
H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.Refer for additional information:
I believe a consumption tax would be better than a flat tax. But the great danger American taxpayers must be alert to is that our Congress, the body that taxes us, is not looking to reduce government revenue, but to significantly increase it.
A flat tax would still require a government agency to determine who will pay how much. A consumption tax is better because it is more fair and because the means to collect a consumption tax is already in place.
The real danger of putting in a flat or consumption tax is that it will apply in addition to the income tax we already pay.
So any legislation to establish a flat or consumption tax must contain a provision to eliminate the IRS altogether or we will end up with a double tax system.
Never underestimate the sheer greed and deciet of government.
Waiting for the obligatory cut-and-paste NRST propaganda...Wow. It took about 10 hours. These guys are slipping.
My dream is that every person pays the exact same price for the freedoms we have.
I know that's too bold; but it would free people up so that ANYONE with an idea or energy could "make it" as big as his/her dream would take them.
Why does Dick Armey just assume that we can amend the Constitution but not reverse that amendment at some later date? Is it written down somewhere?
Try reading some of it. You might find out it isn't propaganda.
You might find out it isn't propaganda.If it isn't propaganda, it is conjecture.
The only thing factual about its outcome is the rate and that's only for the first year... The rate is even deceitful if not a lie in sales tax terms.
S. 812 was recently introduced in the Senate. It has a 20% flat rate on wages and salaries (not investment income) but has a $10,000 deduction ($20,000 for married couples) plus $5,000 per child. It also allows for deduction of charitable contributions and mortgage interest (which are political realities).
To be also noted S. 812 keeps the SS/Medicare taxes place with its 7.65% wage tax on individuals, and 7.65% excise on the business side on top of that 20%.
Upping the personal deductions sure makes certain we'll have more voters interested in getting government spending under control, NOT.
So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?
Walter Williams
Congress Critters will love that side of it.
Strange, I don't see any provisions in that bill to credit back business taxes to our exporters in there, isn't a "Flat Tax" border adjustable? Or is it just another variation of the CIT the WTO/GATT throw's back in the face of the US when we try to treat or corporate income taxes on the same basis as the EU crediting VAT payments back to its exporters in international trade.
Right there you have the prime reason Congress is luk warm on any bill retaining Corporate Income Taxes, built on the same formula as the current system. This one's DOA even before it get to the gate, with nil advantages over the current tax system at all to business or the citizen who still ends up having to prove their income to the IRS same as ever.
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