Posted on 05/25/2005 11:32:48 AM PDT by nypokerface
You don't have to apologize, we are just having a conversation and sometimes its difficult to follow a written communication. Its much easier to speak face to face.
No doubt an injustice has been done. It HAS been recognized. It HAS been rectified: re: numerous programs for Indians.
I also think the BIA needs to come up with the Indian's monies it has lost or mishandled...that would be a big help[Billions of $$'s...thats billion with a "b"]
But an apology? No.
I agree with some other posters that an "apology" has very definite legal ramifications. I don't think that is what we want. Its all very nice to say "I'm sorry". But it doesn't change a thing. You can't take it back...but if you admit it was wrong, in that way, some judge will say you have to give back what you took. I would bet on that, twisted as it is.
And if the Indian self esteem is wrapped up in hearing an apology, they have become members of the Woosypuss tribe.
"..but if you admit it was wrong, in that way, some judge will say you have to give back what you took."
Then we can start with his house.
The problem isn't with the apology, ots with activits judges, but that's another argument.
Read "The Fist American Revolution".
Really? :-)
How does dragging an infant through cacti at the end of a rope from a galloping horse work into this worldview? Or, raping an old woman pinned to the ground with a lance? Or, returning a captive who had her nose burned off and her face tattooed to mark her as a slave?
I'm not unsympathetic to your posts, indeed I find them interesting and enjoyable, but I think you grant a little too much humanity to the ways of some of the less than peaceful tribes.
The Indians killed and ate lots of the Asians that were first here in North America. Where's that apology?
Well, as I said you can't generalize about all tribes and everyone is an individual.
I think what you are alluding to involves the Apaches and Commanches, an exceptionally tough and brutal bunch. Perhaps the environment creates the people. Thye lived in an exceptionally brutal environment.
But then I guess stringing up a pregnant indian woman and cutting the living fetus out of her after she has been raped by a bunch of frontiersmen isn't too civlized either. And that is just what happened to the daughter of a pro-white indian chief named "Logan". Obviously Logan went on the warpath after this and killed as many whites as he could. Were I he, I would have gladly done the same.
The point here is brutality is all too common among the human species as a whole and no one group has a monopoly on it or is totally free of it.
However, I stand by my original premise that Indians in general were more trusting and receptive of whites when it came to adopting and accepting them into their tribes as equals than whites were of indians. This is related to the fact that European whites regarded indians as inferior creatures, hardly human, while Indians were able in many cases to overcome their aversion to a people who stole their land, cheated them, plied them with whiskey, raped their women and killed the animals they relied on for food, just to watch them die.
In most cases, with a few exceptions like the - God, do I HAVE to say this - the french - Whites who married Indians were regarded with loathing and hatred by their fellow whites, while whites who married indian women were accepted into her tribe and family with open arms.
By the way, I'm all white and Euro-American and proud of it. We have risen above the vises of our predecessors.
Where on earth did you get that information?? Erich von Daneken??
Over the last year there have been lots of digs from Canada down through Mexico.
Discovered was that the fist inhabitants of North America were Asian.
There have been lots of articles in the newspapers about this.
So, somebody got rid of the Asians first and they need an apology.
Other digs of the ancient cultures of the Americas found the remains of human flesh in their stomachs. That would be canibalism...
Yuck... I know, you don't have to say it. More than you needed to know.
The Indians sided with the French in the French And Indian War (1753). The indians lost the war.
The Indians sided with the British in the Revolution. The Indians lost the war.
The Indians sided with the British again in the War of 1812. The Indians lost the war.
It's late, so I won't go into much detail tonight, but you're misrepresenting history here. Different Indian tribes fought on both sides of all three wars you mentioned. For instance, Choctaw chief Pushmataha and a band of warriors fought alongside and on behalf of General Andrew Jackson during the War of 1812, including a heroic stand at the Battle of New Orleans. Not all tribes shared the same politics, goals or alliances...then or now. A simple search on Google would've revealed this.
Then y'all get no more $$$ for nuthin', and start paying income tax like the rest of us.
All Indians pay federal income taxes, just like every other American. It doesn't matter whether they live on a reservation or not. If they're employed (even in a tribal-owned business or casino), they pay federal income taxes.
Some tribal members who choose to live on a reservation are exempt from state income taxes. However, if they decide to move off the reservation, as many younger Indians do, they must pay state income taxes as well.
Thank you for the information. I was incorrect in my post.
There is some debate as to whether or not Asians alone were the first settlers in the Americas. Its possible some early Americans came from western Europe and seom early South Americans came from Africa and were later absorbed by the Asian immigrnats.
Native Americans didn't wipe out the early Asian immigrants. The early Asian immigrants evolved into Native Americans over a period of at least 20,000 years.
I think you are referring to Kennewick Man. Kennewick man resembles the Ainu, Asians who live in northern Japan. Its possible these people were the ancestors of recent Native Americans. There features are Caucasoid, but that doesn't necessary mean they were Caucasians. If you look at pictures of early Native Americas there were actually quite a range of appearances and skin tones wich varied from tribe to tribe.
I'm not aware that any digs ever found human flesh in the stomachs of Native Americans.
The Aztecs and possibly some other related peoples practised human sacrifice and ate the sacrifical victims as part of the ritual.
Certain Texan tribes were reputed to be cannibals and certain northeastern tribes like the Iroqouis in particular would eat the hearts and other parts of an especially valiant enemy warrior believing that by doing so they would acquire the courage of the individual eaten.
In Europe it was not unknown for the besieged in cities in warfare to eat the dead or even each other when other food ran out. In other cases, cannibalism was practised during times of great famine.
The early Celts and even Romans collected the heads of their enemies as battle trophies.
So what does all this mean with respect to the relationship between Native Americans and early Europena sttlers? Probably little or nothing.
Bingo!
And yank back the tax-free subsidies they enjoy in the casino business no enjoyed by any other for-profit industry in this country.
That money is not making its way down to the 'rank and file', but given the history of transfer payments in this country, we knew that would happen.
Another point that needs to be made is that from Columbus and Cortez right down to the last battle, European whites had native troops fighting beside them against their "brothers". Indeed the conquest of the Americas would have been impossible without native help. The European powers fighting each other for control of North America all used various tribes against each other and the tribes used the wars to settle old grudges between each other.
The world's first concentration camp: Deer Island, Boston Harbor.
Yes, you are right - there are some exceptions. The large majority of indian tribes always fought on the "wrong" side of American history. Something to think about as you celebrate July 4th - that if most of the indians of the time had their way, there would be no America...
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