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Creationism: God's gift to the ignorant (Religion bashing alert)
Times Online UK ^ | May 21, 2005 | Richard Dawkins

Posted on 05/25/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by billorites

Science feeds on mystery. As my colleague Matt Ridley has put it: “Most scientists are bored by what they have already discovered. It is ignorance that drives them on.” Science mines ignorance. Mystery — that which we don’t yet know; that which we don’t yet understand — is the mother lode that scientists seek out. Mystics exult in mystery and want it to stay mysterious. Scientists exult in mystery for a very different reason: it gives them something to do.

Admissions of ignorance and mystification are vital to good science. It is therefore galling, to say the least, when enemies of science turn those constructive admissions around and abuse them for political advantage. Worse, it threatens the enterprise of science itself. This is exactly the effect that creationism or “intelligent design theory” (ID) is having, especially because its propagandists are slick, superficially plausible and, above all, well financed. ID, by the way, is not a new form of creationism. It simply is creationism disguised, for political reasons, under a new name.

It isn’t even safe for a scientist to express temporary doubt as a rhetorical device before going on to dispel it.

“To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” You will find this sentence of Charles Darwin quoted again and again by creationists. They never quote what follows. Darwin immediately went on to confound his initial incredulity. Others have built on his foundation, and the eye is today a showpiece of the gradual, cumulative evolution of an almost perfect illusion of design. The relevant chapter of my Climbing Mount Improbable is called “The fortyfold Path to Enlightenment” in honour of the fact that, far from being difficult to evolve, the eye has evolved at least 40 times independently around the animal kingdom.

The distinguished Harvard geneticist Richard Lewontin is widely quoted as saying that organisms “appear to have been carefully and artfully designed”. Again, this was a rhetorical preliminary to explaining how the powerful illusion of design actually comes about by natural selection. The isolated quotation strips out the implied emphasis on “appear to”, leaving exactly what a simple-mindedly pious audience — in Kansas, for instance — wants to hear.

The deceitful misquoting of scientists to suit an anti-scientific agenda ranks among the many unchristian habits of fundamentalist authors. But such Telling Lies for God (the book title of the splendidly pugnacious Australian geologist Ian Plimer) is not the most serious problem. There is a more important point to be made, and it goes right to the philosophical heart of creationism.

The standard methodology of creationists is to find some phenomenon in nature which Darwinism cannot readily explain. Darwin said: “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Creationists mine ignorance and uncertainty in order to abuse his challenge. “Bet you can’t tell me how the elbow joint of the lesser spotted weasel frog evolved by slow gradual degrees?” If the scientist fails to give an immediate and comprehensive answer, a default conclusion is drawn: “Right, then, the alternative theory; ‘intelligent design’ wins by default.”

Notice the biased logic: if theory A fails in some particular, theory B must be right! Notice, too, how the creationist ploy undermines the scientist’s rejoicing in uncertainty. Today’s scientist in America dare not say: “Hm, interesting point. I wonder how the weasel frog’s ancestors did evolve their elbow joint. I’ll have to go to the university library and take a look.” No, the moment a scientist said something like that the default conclusion would become a headline in a creationist pamphlet: “Weasel frog could only have been designed by God.”

I once introduced a chapter on the so-called Cambrian Explosion with the words: “It is as though the fossils were planted there without any evolutionary history.” Again, this was a rhetorical overture, intended to whet the reader’s appetite for the explanation. Inevitably, my remark was gleefully quoted out of context. Creationists adore “gaps” in the fossil record.

Many evolutionary transitions are elegantly documented by more or less continuous series of changing intermediate fossils. Some are not, and these are the famous “gaps”. Michael Shermer has wittily pointed out that if a new fossil discovery neatly bisects a “gap”, the creationist will declare that there are now two gaps! Note yet again the use of a default. If there are no fossils to document a postulated evolutionary transition, the assumption is that there was no evolutionary transition: God must have intervened.

The creationists’ fondness for “gaps” in the fossil record is a metaphor for their love of gaps in knowledge generally. Gaps, by default, are filled by God. You don’t know how the nerve impulse works? Good! You don’t understand how memories are laid down in the brain? Excellent! Is photosynthesis a bafflingly complex process? Wonderful! Please don’t go to work on the problem, just give up, and appeal to God. Dear scientist, don’t work on your mysteries. Bring us your mysteries for we can use them. Don’t squander precious ignorance by researching it away. Ignorance is God’s gift to Kansas.

Richard Dawkins, FRS, is the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science, at Oxford University. His latest book is The Ancestor’s Tale


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: biblethumpers; cary; creation; crevolist; dawkins; evolution; excellentessay; funnyresponses; hahahahahahaha; liberalgarbage; phenryjerkalert; smegheads
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To: chronic_loser
Science assumes sensory experiences are correct if they are shared by enough people.

No, science is not about majority rules.

Science is an iterative process of observation and theory formation. Theory formation, followed by confirming or disconfirming observation, is what separates science from all other means of acquiring knowledge. Consensus or majority opinion are just politics. Every instition has politics, but science lives outside and beyond politics. Political errors are eventually corrected by observation and theory formation.

2,621 posted on 06/08/2005 5:58:52 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Sensory data is refined, extended and corrected by the iterative process of theory formation and observation. It is the theory formation and testing -- the iterative process -- that gives science its power.


2,622 posted on 06/08/2005 6:01:32 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: js1138
Science assumes sensory experiences are correct if they are shared by enough people.>>>>

Science is an iterative process of observation and theory formation. Theory formation, followed by confirming or disconfirming observation


You just restated what I said in jargon Reminds me of the court transcript which read "Now we understand that your son is illiterate" at which time the woman responded "that is a dirty lie! We were married three monthst before he was born!"
2,623 posted on 06/08/2005 6:12:25 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: js1138
Sensory data is refined, extended and corrected by the iterative process of theory formation and [further] observation.

What kind of evidence does science have to work with other than sensory data? Granted, sensory data does not fit into a theory until it is run through logical processing, but at bottom, and especially with regard to evolution, sensory data is the first line of information for human reason to deal with.

Is it reasonable to postulate that there can be no theory without observation, and there can be no observation without sensory data? I mean, I've never considered science to be purely Platonic in nature.

2,624 posted on 06/08/2005 6:17:28 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: chronic_loser; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
The question you're begging is inherent in the two words 'naturalistic presupposition'. This is akin to Alamo-Girl's 'metaphysical naturalism'. They may exist, but I think they're rare, and no one here posting is one.

In reality, naturalism is bootstrapped from experience. It begins when we discover, as infants, that we can act and often predict the results of our actions. It continues, when we discover, both from our own experience and from the experiences of others, that a world model based on our own experiences and those of others, and including only natural causes and effects, works.

I've said this before; but what the hey: the most religious people in the US today are hardline naturalists compared with the natural philosophers of four centuries ago. My churchgoing neighbors, if their soybeans get rust, blame fungus and spray with a fungicide. Four centuries ago they would have blamed a supernatural cause and prayed. If their kids get sick, they blame a microorganism and go to a doctor; four centuries ago they would have blamed a supernatural cause, and prayed. Thank heavens, over the last four centuries, we didn't have a movement to resist the search for natural causes for soybean rust or disease.

We are all naturalists nowadays. The distinction is only between the 99% naturalists, the 99.9% naturalists, and the 100% naturalists. As for Johnson's book - I've read bits (couldn't make it the whole way through, and didn't see why I should, once I'd gotten the point) - and he doesn't understand the mechanics of science.

2,625 posted on 06/08/2005 6:50:54 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: chronic_loser
You just restated what I said in jargon

No. There's a fundamental difference. I'm sorry if you don't see it. Post #2618 is as simple as the concept can be stated in English.

What makes science fundamentally different from other ways of obtaining knowledge is its iterative process of forming theories to explain observed phenomena, testing the theories with experiments and further observations, refining the theory, and repeating the process indefinitely.

2,626 posted on 06/08/2005 7:02:46 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Right Wing Professor
In reality, naturalism is bootstrapped from experience. It begins when we discover, as infants, that we can act and often predict the results of our actions. It continues, when we discover, both from our own experience and from the experiences of others, that a world model based on our own experiences and those of others, and including only natural causes and effects, works.

Water? What water?

Thanks for the reply, though, and yes, Alamo-Girl's metaphysical naturalism is identical to naturalistic presupposition. Both refer to unverifiable, philosophical starting point which have nothing to do with "science" at all. This philosophical starting point insists on an artificial distinction between "natural" and "supernatural" which is simply an iteration of your worldview, and has nothing at all to do with a verifiable method of collecting data.

Thank you for your quote in the leadin. That is one of the best working definitions of presuppositional naturalism I have seen in a while....., but it is philosophy, not science.

Thanks for the courtesy of your reply, though.
2,627 posted on 06/08/2005 7:38:38 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: chronic_loser
This philosophical starting point insists on an artificial distinction between "natural" and "supernatural"...

The distinction is not artificial.

The natural order includes every phenomenon that can be put to the test, directly or indirectly.

It is religion that insists that its key phenomena shall not be put to the test.

2,628 posted on 06/08/2005 7:57:37 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: chronic_loser
Both refer to unverifiable, philosophical starting point which have nothing to do with "science" at all. This philosophical starting point insists on an artificial distinction between "natural" and "supernatural" which is simply an iteration of your worldview, and has nothing at all to do with a verifiable method of collecting data.

No human being starts with a philosophy. We start with the observation that when we scream our tiny lungs out, our mother comes running.

Philosophy is the post hoc rationalization of what we already think.

2,629 posted on 06/08/2005 8:14:46 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
We start with the observation that when we scream our tiny lungs out, our mother comes running.

And after she comes running once, the post hoc rationalization begins.

2,630 posted on 06/08/2005 9:00:03 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: chronic_loser
You are correct, yet you have slipped in several naturalistic assumptions "under the table" . Science assumes sensory experiences are correct if they are shared by enough people. This is where "science" is pure philosophical prejudice, with no "scientific" basis to stand at all. It is an arbitrary starting point.

One, I object to the suggestion that things are being "slipped under the table." This implies dishonestly. Science is a tool for describing the physical world in concrete terms in such a way as to produce repeatable results. Science cannot and should not address the supernatural.

Two, the argument you are making is epistemological in nature. There is nothing with the study of epistemology. Questions such as 'what is knowledge' and 'how do we know what our senses tell us is true' are all very important questions. It is, however, not relevant to the issue at hand because epistemology is a branch of philosophy.

This sort of thing is endemic to creationism/evolution debates. It is not that the objections creationists have with evolution are invalid. It is just that they are philosophical in nature, and as such, non-scientific.

I have no problem with someone who has philosophical objections to evolutionary theory. If they believe that the wonder of existence implies the Creator, this is well and good. I have no problem with this. If someone chooses not to believe evolution occurs, this is fine. If someone chooses not to believe the evidence, this is fine, too. But I have a problem when people imply there is massive fraud perpetrated by the scientific community in supporting evolutionary theory. I believe that this type of supposition borders on being a paranoid conspiracy theory.

2,631 posted on 06/08/2005 9:27:39 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic
One, I object to the suggestion that things are being "slipped under the table."This implies dishonestly.

Sorry. You are correct in that this was a poor choice of words. I did not mean to imply anything of the sort and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention. Rather, it was meant to signify that we bring it to the table without realizing that it is an intellectual CHOICE rather than just "the way things are."

Saying that science shoudl not "address the supernatural" again begs the question. The issue is whether science should assume naturalism, methodological or otherwise. My response is that this has nothing to do with science proper, but is simply a description of which "worldview" one does science. However, if one operates in a wholistic world, rather than an arbitrarily truncated empirically defined world, then it is not "unscientific" to see patterns of data and think "hmmmm, that would be consistent with what I believe about the wholistic universe." Complexity could then be postulated as the result of intelligence. Outside this construct, "science" must assume that everything is the result of mechanistic determinism, as "religion does not belong in the realm of science." Again, it is an arbitrary dictum that says science should "look" for an answer to the nature of the universe by assuming a divorce between some "natural" and "supernatural"

Yes, the argument is epistemological in nature. I would argue that the empiricists here have no rational grounds for asserting the uniformity of nature, without which science as science falls to the ground. Science (or any other field of study) cannot be divorced from its philosophical underpinnings. Otherwise, we have what we often have here, which is people banging the table howling out about the "data" when all they are really doing is announcing their belief system. When you start where they start, then hell yes, the data "supports" it. It can't do anything else, by definition.

You are also correct in saying that this is endemic to the creation/evolution debate. There are many theists like myself who have no theoretical or practical objections to the concept of natural selection, who object like crazy to the false idea that science must be done within a naturalistic construct.

I think many in the evo crowd are enantimeric images of the ICR crowd. They announce that if you adopt anything other than a young earth with all life forms pretty much they way they were "at creation" then it is a one way street to denying the truth of the bible altogether. Such a fear is false, and sometimes causes them to make silly statements. You are right in making allusions to a paranoid conspiracy theory. On the other hand, there seem to be those who fear that if science is able to reference any non-empirical areas at all, they will wind up in bed with Duane Gish. I say a pox on both their houses.

At any rate, thank you for your calm and reasoned response.
2,632 posted on 06/08/2005 9:53:05 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: chronic_loser
...then it is not "unscientific" to see patterns of data and think "hmmmm, that would be consistent with what I believe about the wholistic universe." Complexity could then be postulated as the result of intelligence.

But this postulate is unnecessary. Nothing in nature has been observed that would make this a productive hypothesis.

Virtually every phenomenon from volcanos to disease has been postulated as the result of intervention. Once you allow this hypothesis you are finished with your research.

2,633 posted on 06/08/2005 10:00:04 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Liberal Classic
IMHO, science can and should address the supernatural to the extent that supernatural claims are open to investigation. By example, that's what the James Randi Education Foundation does all the time. As it turns out, scientific investigations of supernatural hypotheses consistently reveal properties indistinguishable from an object or phenomenon that does not exist..
2,634 posted on 06/08/2005 10:00:08 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: js1138
Once you allow this hypothesis you are finished with your research.

I don't see how this follows. One can assume supernatural causes behind the physical and still explore the physical - what it is, and to some degree, how it works.

2,635 posted on 06/08/2005 10:10:01 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: js1138
But this postulate is unnecessary. Nothing in nature has been observed that would make this a productive hypothesis.

Of COURSE it is unnecessary if you start with a naturalistic presupposition! All you are doing is arguing in a circle. You may be taking the added step of saying that your presupposition is self-justifying. I don't want to impute to you what I am not sure you are saying. However, saying that if you start with a truncated view of the world, even for investigative purposes, you will wind up with the same truncated view, is like Anselm's argument. You simply define reality in a way that banishes others and call it the result of scientific inquiry.
2,636 posted on 06/08/2005 10:11:36 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: js1138
Virtually every phenomenon from volcanos to disease has been postulated as the result of intervention.

Skip the "Virtually" and you are beginning to understand what I am saying. Everything in the Christian construct universe is the result of the moment by moment intervention of a sovereign Creator/sustainer, from the subatomic level upwards. The problem is you see intervention as somehow at odds with what you can observe. I reject utterly the notion that there is some kind of "natural" universe which left to itself chugs along, and only needs "intervention" for a virgin birth, a resurrection, or some other puzzlement. The flow of electrons to power your monitor is no less a miracle than the crucifixion of a Savior. The results of the two actions are vastly different. The nature of divine activity in both are not. That is the false dichotomy that is the result of the issue I am talking about.

Once you allow this hypothesis you are finished with your research.

This is nonsense. I am not trying to be mean in saying that. It just is. A whole host of scientists in history have operated within this worldview, and they did not put up their measuring devices and attempt to "pray in" an understanding of the universe.
2,637 posted on 06/08/2005 10:23:32 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: Right Wing Professor; chronic_loser

I'm not so sure about that. I suspect most of us start with the observation that when we scream our tiny lungs out a nipple pops into our mouths.

Sadly, that doesn't work for adults. =(


2,638 posted on 06/08/2005 10:24:28 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv
I stand corrected on the Amazing Randi.


2,639 posted on 06/08/2005 11:37:36 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: chronic_loser; Right Wing Professor; Alamo-Girl; xzins; PatrickHenry; marron; AntiGuv
To respond that the concept of the supernatural is outside the ken of "science" since it is not quantifiable, observable, etc, only shows (let me say this again) that you don't understand the objection. I have to say that arguments with some of you is like talking to a fish who responds "Water?, what water? I don't see any water? This wet stuff is all we have to start with." At this point, you are not doing "science" at all, but simply repeating your naturalistic presuppositions. ... Until you understand this, there is no hope that you can understand the objections that most ID people make, therefore, you will continue attacking straw men.

Your insight is most perceptive, chronic-loser.

There seems to be a colossal "refusal to apperceive" on the part of the "metaphysical naturalists" (a/k/a/ scientific materialists) out there -- a refusal to recognize the existence of the issue of most central concern to ID investigators.

Scientific materialists (e.g., Lewontin, Dawkins, Monod, Wilson, Pinker, et al.) demand to START with matter, and then let everything flow (in a "trial-and-error" process) from that start, to be "organized" by the effects of random collisions (in later times, by random mutation/natural selection). After some 15 billion years or so of random collisions, we neatly obtain the Universe we see all around us -- which is "the way it is and not some other way," as Leibniz put it. Yet as materialist theory goes, this result was allegedly obtained by virtue of a 15-billion-year-old chain of accidents.

Such eminent thinkers as Hoyle and Penrose have stated that the odds the Universe is the product of random chance, that it actually occurred in the fashion the scientific materialists say it did, are astronomically improbable, as I recall something on the order of 1055 to one. (That number is 10 with 55 zeros following it.)

Yet it's these kinds of odds that the scientific materialists are placing their bets on. It just doesn't seem rational to me. What am I missing here?

It seems to me matter cannot be sui generis: If it exists in space and time then it is most likely the the result of a cause, of something else; and its motions governed by something more fundamental than itself, which constitutes the principles by which it is governed. The laws of physics themselves are not material things. Further it is difficult to conceive of a "law" as a random production by definition. "Randomness" and "law" are terms that couldn't be more antithetical, mutually-exclusive even.

It's as if the metaphysical naturalist comes into a movie already run half-way through, and is not the least bit curious about or interested in what happened at the movie's beginning. But he's confident he understands its ending regardless.

Now we need not necessarily be talking about a temporal beginning here, though it is virtually certain the Universe had a beginning in time. We are talking about the first link in the causal chain on which everything else depends. This is a logical problem -- with profound ontological and epistemological implications for absolutely everything that exists in the Universe.

Sigh. It seems the scientific materialist/metaphysical naturalist simply refuses to see that physical and natural laws, naturalistic/materialist philosophies (including the one he himself espouses), consciousness/intelligence/information, the very idea of science as a discipline are "supernatural" things -- in the sense that "matter in its motions" cannot exhaustively account for them. It seems life itself is "supernatural" in this sense.

Thank you so much for your perceptive post, chronic_loser.

2,640 posted on 06/08/2005 1:48:02 PM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitus)
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