Skip to comments.
Librarian's brush with FBI shapes her view of the USA Patriot Act
USAToday ^
| Wed May 18, 6:25 AM ET
| By Joan Airoldi
Posted on 05/18/2005 8:06:25 AM PDT by Redcitizen
Edited on 05/18/2005 8:17:50 AM PDT by Admin Moderator.
[history]
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100, 101-120, 121-140 ... 161-177 next last
To: Old_Mil
You can't call them towelheads, that's derogatory. They wear sheets and not towels so you have to call them sheetheads! ;-)
101
posted on
05/18/2005 1:00:22 PM PDT
by
Fledermaus
(Rats theme song: "Whatever it is...I'm AGAINST it!!!")
To: Celtjew Libertarian; Steve_Seattle
What "freedoms" have we given up as a result of the Patriot Act? What can't you do now that you could do on Sept. 10, 2001? Buy a book without worrying that the FBI might go to a secret court to find out what books I'm buying.
Exactly.
102
posted on
05/18/2005 1:00:34 PM PDT
by
rattrap
To: dljordan
They do. One of the biggest myths of the Patriot Act is that they don't need court orders. They do. The act only gives the SAME TOOLS to fighting terrorism as the Feds already have for organized crime or drugs.
103
posted on
05/18/2005 1:02:06 PM PDT
by
Fledermaus
(Rats theme song: "Whatever it is...I'm AGAINST it!!!")
To: Steve_Seattle
So just because he's of middle-eastern descent and paid cash (which, I'm pretty sure, is still within the bounds of the law) for something Americans do every day (Start lessons for a PPL) he should have some secret investigation into his background?
104
posted on
05/18/2005 1:05:12 PM PDT
by
rattrap
To: Steve_Seattle
It is not easy, necessary, or safe to carry around large sums of cash to conduct routine business transactions, and to do so should arouse suspicion. Here, let me help you with that.
It is not easy, necessary, or safe well within our rights to carry around large sums of cash to conduct routine business transactions, and to do so should not arouse suspicion.
105
posted on
05/18/2005 1:08:29 PM PDT
by
rattrap
To: rattrap
"Buy a book without worrying that the FBI might go to a secret court to find out what books I'm buying."
Is that the best you can do? Every year billions of books are purchased from stores or checked out from libraries by tens of millions of people. Do you seriously think the FBI has the time, resources , or interest in monitoring the book purchases of the average citizen? They barely have the resources or inclination to follow through on actual tips they receive from the public or other law enforcement agencies (as was made clear in the post-9/11 investigations). This was a freak case involving a tip based on an unusual notation written in a book. It had nothing to do with random government monitoring of book usage or book purchases. I read somewhere that in the first 16 months after the Patriot Act was passed, not one single library account was subpoenaed.
To: MsJefferson
Wrong. The Patriot Act doesn't violate the Constitution, or perhaps you're just smarter than the 99 or 100 senators that voted for it, and you're smarter than any of the judges that have upheld it.
When you ask any opponent of the Patriot act to specifically point to the alleged constitutional violation, they normally just mumble and go away. But if you have an argument to make, let's hear it.
107
posted on
05/18/2005 1:15:19 PM PDT
by
NavVet
(“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
To: Redcitizen
If a copy of "Little Women" was discovered to have the same statement in it, I assume there would still be a reason to find out who wrote that. It would be even more prudent to find out who wrote it if in the book it was found in.
These librarians are choosing the wrong battle here.
108
posted on
05/18/2005 1:19:05 PM PDT
by
RobRoy
(Child support and maintenence (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
To: Steve_Seattle
Is that the best you can do? Every year billions of books are purchased from stores or checked out from libraries by tens of millions of people. Do you seriously think the FBI has the time, resources , or interest in monitoring the book purchases of the average citizen? They barely have the resources or inclination to follow through on actual tips they receive from the public or other law enforcement agencies (as was made clear in the post-9/11 investigations). This was a freak case involving a tip based on an unusual notation written in a book. It had nothing to do with random government monitoring of book usage or book purchases. I read somewhere that in the first 16 months after the Patriot Act was passed, not one single library account was subpoenaed. Of course, if it was done in a secret court, we wouldn't necessarily know about it, nu?
True enough that the odds are against any one given individual having their book buying/borrowing habits monitored. By the same token, the odds are against any single person being falsely arrested -- but it does happen and we worry about it.
However, I disagree that they can't check out average citizens easily. They could at least ask for a subpoena an entire database in order to compile a list of who bought certain books they are concerned about. They might not get the subpoena, but with secret courts, who know?
109
posted on
05/18/2005 1:20:29 PM PDT
by
Celtjew Libertarian
(Shake Hands with the Serpent: Poetry by Charles Lipsig aka Celtjew http://books.lulu.com/lipsig)
To: rattrap
"So just because he's of middle-eastern descent and paid cash (which, I'm pretty sure, is still within the bounds of the law) for something Americans do every day (Start lessons for a PPL) he should have some secret investigation into his background?"
Not necessarily, but perhaps if such a report were filed and the FBI checked its file of existing suspects, this person's name might show up. And perhaps as a result, thousands of lives might be saved. And if the FBI received such a report, failed to investigate, and the person later turned out to be a terrorist, do you think the press and many others (possibly even yourself) would go on and on about what morons the FBI were, how they didn't "connect the dots"? And I don't recall saying anyone should be arrested for using cash; but it is a known fact in law enforcement that many illegal activities are concealed through cash transactions, and the use of large sums of cash is very often a red flag that something illegal is going on. I don't know if it was you or someone else who said that it would only be proper to investigate my hypothetical student pilot if he asked for something unusual like not learning how to land. Well, that's not illegal either.
To: Steve_Seattle
Whether they've used it or not is not the point, the point is the ability to use it is there.
111
posted on
05/18/2005 1:21:35 PM PDT
by
rattrap
To: Old_Mil
Can there be any clearer evidence that liberals are anti-American faux conservatives are willing to hand over any semblance of freedom for a false feeling of 'safety'?I don't care what side of the aisle this lady votes on. It's just a good thing to see we still have a few patriots left in this nation of states, than a bunch of blind leading the blind, willing to take the government's word on everything
It was a quote from 1998 according to the article. I don't know about you, but I've put notes in the margin on books before. Most everyone has. This situation is a very good argument for returning to private libraries
112
posted on
05/18/2005 1:21:39 PM PDT
by
billbears
(Deo Vindice)
To: GianniV; Steve_Seattle
Well, let me tell you something, funny boy. Y'know that little stamp,
the one that says "New York Public Library"? Well that may not mean
anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole hell of a lot.
Sure, go ahead, laugh if you want to. I've seen your type before:
Flashy, making the scene, flaunting convention. Yeah, I know what you're
thinking. What's this guy making such a big stink about old library
books? Well, let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without
libraries, people like you and me. Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change
the world, but what about that kid, sitting down, opening a book, right
now, in a branch at the local library and finding drawings of pee-pees
and wee-wees on the Cat in the Hat and the Five Chinese Brothers?
Doesn't HE deserve better? Look. If you think this is about overdue
fines and missing books, you'd better think again. This is about that
kid's right to read a book without getting his mind warped! Or: maybe
that turns you on, Seinfeld; maybe that's how y'get your kicks. You and
your good-time buddies. Well I got a flash for ya, joy-boy: Party time
is over. Y'got seven days, Seinfeld. That is one week!
113
posted on
05/18/2005 1:22:27 PM PDT
by
petercooper
(Put Mark Levin on the Supreme Court.)
To: Celtjew Libertarian
"secret courts"
These subpeonas are obtained in regular courts from regular judges, and few if any judges have a cavalier attitude about letting law enforcement go on fishing expeditions.
To: petercooper
You've either got a photographic memory or found a site with Seinfeld scripts. lol
To: petercooper
"Can'tStandYaaa, Can'tStandYaaa"
A classic episode.
116
posted on
05/18/2005 1:32:21 PM PDT
by
rattrap
To: rattrap
I think in that episode Kramer says something like, "The Dewey Decimal System is the biggest fraud once one-hour Martinizing."
To: Publius Valerius
Isn't that what Mohammad Atta said.
It is funny that no one has a problem when any of these provisions that were in effect under various drug kingpin legislation for twenty-plus years, but extend the law to cover terrorist and all of a sudden folks are running around wrapping their heads in aluminum foil and complaining about the black helicopters.
118
posted on
05/18/2005 1:36:20 PM PDT
by
NavVet
(“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
To: rattrap
In the DVD commentary on that episode, the writer says his one problem with the show was the bad wig they got for George during the high school flashbacks. He wanted something that looked realistic, whereas the one they used was an obvious fake.
To: NavVet
"I don't want to have to explain away Judy Garland's greatest hits.)"
Might get iffy if you have "Elvis Presley's Greatest Hits".
120
posted on
05/18/2005 1:40:47 PM PDT
by
jwh_Denver
(A source of alternative energy; windmills in front of liberals mouths.)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100, 101-120, 121-140 ... 161-177 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson