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Buchanan sees 'war' within conservatism
The Washington Times ^ | May 17, 2005 | Ralph Z. Hallow

Posted on 05/17/2005 6:15:46 AM PDT by sawdust

Pat Buchanan speaks of American conservatism in the past tense. "The conservative movement has passed into history," says the one-time White House aide, three-time presidential candidate, commentator and magazine publisher. "It doesn't exist anymore as a unifying force," he says in an interview with The Washington Times. "There are still a lot of people who are conservative, but the movement is now broken up, crumbled, dismantled." Mr. Buchanan, a former adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford and Reagan, says conservatism "is at war with itself over foreign policy, over deficit hawks versus supply-siders." Unnamed phonies, he suggests, have infiltrated the movement. There are "a lot of people who call themselves conservative but who, on many issues, I just don't consider as conservative. They are big-government people."

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: aliens; betrayal; crank; end; exhaustion; gop; immigration; itsallaboutme; offhismeds; onsetofalzheimers; patbuchanan; soreloser; takemyballandgohome
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To: New Orleans Slim
...and he seeks to use the government to impose his vision.

Exactly! The very thing that real conservatives USE to be against. But now it's "Well, I want to do it with MY values/views/vision."

41 posted on 05/17/2005 6:45:49 AM PDT by Howlin (North Carolina, where beer kegs are registered and illegal aliens run free.)
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To: reelfoot

There is a war within conservatism. A war from within is always more difficult than a war from without.


42 posted on 05/17/2005 6:46:24 AM PDT by Gipper08 (MIKE PENCE IN 2008)
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To: finnman69
He's wrong in declaring cleaning out the cockroaches in Iraq and Afghanistan is "Wilsonian".

Actually he's not

We are glad, now that we see the facts with no veil of false pretence about them, to fight thus for the ultimate peace of the world and for the liberation of its peoples, the German peoples included: for the rights of nations great and small and the privilege of men everywhere to choose their way of life and of obedience. The world must be made safe for democracy--Woodrow Wilson

The concerted effort of free nations to promote democracy is a prelude to our enemies' defeat. --George Bush

I also find his singling out of Giuliani and Schwarzenegger from the 2004 RNC unfair

Considering neither are conservative what's wrong with it?

43 posted on 05/17/2005 6:47:03 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: FlipWilson

That's the part that people like Pat and Alan Keyes just don't seem to like or understand; it's not what they SAY, it's THEM.


44 posted on 05/17/2005 6:47:37 AM PDT by Howlin (North Carolina, where beer kegs are registered and illegal aliens run free.)
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To: New Orleans Slim

That is why what Pat wants is the government to subsidize his ideas




Yep, just like the democrats with their pet programs.


45 posted on 05/17/2005 6:49:14 AM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: finnman69
****I also find his singling out of Giuliani and Schwarzenegger from the 2004 RNC unfair.****

How is it unfair? It's the truth.

'Rudy' was and still is a Democrat - period. He's a liberal gun grabbing statist. He just calls himself a republican - big deal. Does anyone know how he votes when he gets in the booth - NO.

The same with 'Ah-nold'. His only conservative stance is on fiscal matters. Again, big deal.

In fact calling either a RINO is being way too generous and an insult to real RINO's. Both are just 'strong national defense' Democrats. I wouldn't trust either of those 'republicans' to walk my dog.

A pox on both of them.

46 posted on 05/17/2005 6:51:48 AM PDT by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: antisocial

"I also find his singling out of Giuliani and Schwarzenegger from the 2004 RNC unfair."

"You prove him to be correct with your support for RINO's"

Schwarznegger and Giulani aren't RINO's, they are the left wing of the Republicans, but there is a BIG BIG difference between RINO's and conservative left. Nither of them in the senate would not be as disloyal or backstabbing as Specte or McInsane, et. al. Schwarznegger and Giulani in the senate would roll over the opposition.


47 posted on 05/17/2005 6:54:07 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

"Nither of them in the senate would not be as disloyal "

Neither of them in the senate would be as disloyal


48 posted on 05/17/2005 6:55:50 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: sawdust
I think the term you are looking for is "RINO", Patsy...something Buchannan should know plenty about.
49 posted on 05/17/2005 7:00:01 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Saddam's family were WMD's - He's behind bars & his sons are DEAD!)
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To: sawdust
I read the article over my morning coffee in the cafeteria. It was on the front page, below the fold, with a moody side-lit picture ala The Beatles first album.

There is much to Pat Buchanon that they skipped, omitted and otherwise glossed over.....and we all know what those points are. Nonetheless, there are a number of things that we can also agree on, specifically 'Over-spending' and 'Illegal Immigration', which are mentioned in the article. To dismiss him completely would be to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

50 posted on 05/17/2005 7:01:18 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: sawdust

STFU Pat and go out and get a real job.


51 posted on 05/17/2005 7:03:04 AM PDT by hang 'em ("You can't buy the People unless yer for the People, ahuh huh ahuh" - William Jefferson Clinton)
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To: antisocial
""I also find his singling out of Giuliani and Schwarzenegger from the 2004 RNC unfair." You prove him to be correct with your support for RINO's " Bingo...one thing we dont need is Giuliani and the Governator taking away our guns. They are not to be trusted
52 posted on 05/17/2005 7:08:12 AM PDT by Vaquero ('I'm a Red Stater, trapped in the body of a Blue State')
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To: Protagoras
favor isolationism in trade

Could you clarify this? Do you think corporate, WTO inspired free-trade is a Conservative value? Just doesn't sound right to me when you freely give the upper hand to your competitors and passably a future adversary.

53 posted on 05/17/2005 7:12:03 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Balding_Eagle

I agree, as well -- expansion of the military, additional cabinent positions, the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill, Marriage Promotion, more Police State, No Child Left Behind, prohibiting drugs from Canada, corporate welfare, farm subsidy, pork, Federal Marriage Amendment, deficit spending -- the government keeps getting bigger and bigger.

And the problem with some of the posters and conservative legislators isn't that they don't KNOW -- it's that they don't care -- they were, all along, no different from the commie left wing authoritarians -- and now that they have control of all the branches -- they want the most power -- and the most power means taking control of the federal government and making laws from the top down.

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.


54 posted on 05/17/2005 7:12:51 AM PDT by MsJefferson (Self-evident)
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To: Protagoras

You forgot the religious stuff -- Federal marriage & Pro-life Constitutional Amendments, tax dollars to promote Marriage, FCC censorship and the Constiution Restoration Act -- all of which provide more legislation at the federal level.

Social Security should have been a winning issue, though -- I want to tear the whole thing down, but the opt-out provision is a no-brainer. If the GOP could get that done, they would garner some conservative clout.


55 posted on 05/17/2005 7:19:14 AM PDT by MsJefferson (Self-evident)
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To: reelfoot
I think that he is making the Republican party looks much less conservative than it is. I think that he is totally detached from the reality, and have no clue on how to win and achieve as much as you can from the conservative agenda. I think he is being a hypocrite when he calls for less government and at the same time wants the government to regulate how the free market capitalist system do business whether by free trade, or building manufacturing outside the US, or imposing high tariffs on imported products, and such.

The Republican Party is in power because they were able to get ride of someone like Buchanan who only appeals to less than 1% of the voters.

56 posted on 05/17/2005 7:21:21 AM PDT by jveritas (The Left cannot win a national election ever again.)
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To: Realism
I'm not about to debate every government trade treaty. I am quite convinced that if an agreement can be botched, governments will botch them.

Free trade is desirable for free men. I am talking about posters who favor ISOLATIONISM in trade. Just like I posted. Some may read something into that, but I stand by the words I post, as I post them.

In my view, a good trade agreement could be written on the back of a match book. Here's an example, " Country "A" and Country "B" agree to charge each other small and uniform duties on the goods that their respective citizens trade with each other."

57 posted on 05/17/2005 7:22:06 AM PDT by Protagoras (Evolution is amazing, I wonder who invented it?)
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To: billbears
A 'snippet' of the response given to Fulani from Pat regarding her resignation letter

If you read the speeches I have given in the last six months -- on campaign and political reform, deconstructing the New World Order, a more moral foreign policy -- you will find there ideas with which you strongly agree. I do not recall your opposition to any of these; indeed, you seemed to have been enthusiastic about them. With regard to what you call the "social issues," I do believe the deepest problems in our society are not economic or political, but moral. And while the solution to our social crisis may lie less in politics than the human heart, I am and remain proudly pro-life. Moreover, I believe that political leaders must defend the moral order rooted in the Old and New Testament and Natural Law that is under relentless assault; just as we must defend our heritage, history, and heroes, now being denigrated.

This is why Republicans hate conservatives like Pat Buchanan (and love the likes of Republicans like Arnie and that guy from New York)...

I'll take Buchanan and American sovereignty any day, over the NWO crowd...

58 posted on 05/17/2005 7:24:31 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park!!!)
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To: MsJefferson
You forgot the religious stuff -- Federal marriage & Pro-life Constitutional Amendments, tax dollars to promote Marriage, FCC censorship and the Constiution Restoration Act -- all of which provide more legislation at the federal level.

I have exchanged with those people as well.

I have also exchanged with people who embrace socialism as long as it is proposed by Republicans. They call themselves conservatives as well.

I have exchanged with those who support means testing SS instead of abolishing it. The President has started down that road. It transforms SS from a Ponzi scheme into a welfare program. But, if Bush likes it, they support it. And they consider it conservative.

I do not.

59 posted on 05/17/2005 7:27:48 AM PDT by Protagoras (Evolution is amazing, I wonder who invented it?)
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To: rdb3

I hate to say but the more I read Buchanan the more I think he is a tad wacked in his world view. I also think he is a bit racist as well.


60 posted on 05/17/2005 7:34:53 AM PDT by Warrior Nurse (Black & white liberals practice intellectual apartheid when it comes to black conservatives!)
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