Lucas jabs at 'Bush's empire'

Japan today ^ | Monday, May 16, 2005 at 07:29 JST

[McGavin999]

I think Darth Vader is George Lucas. He thinks he's good, and what he's accomplishing is good, when in fact it is evil and harmful.

If you think about it, it's pretty self evident, he's working out his own faults on the screen.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

"Most bad people think they're good people,"

George Lucas, talking from personal knowledge.

[Paul_Denton]

I'm glad he did it the way he did. We needed a "no more mister nice guy" talk from the top.

Same here. And it is true. There is no room for neutrality in this war.

[bigsigh]

I can't yawn anymore than I am now.

[Paul_Denton]

But in point of fact, the president has to be diplomatic if he wants to keep the people safe. The duty of a diplomat is not to be nice for the sake of it, there is a motive and a goal behind most diplomatic action. The reality is, strong-arming people works less often (unless you are prepared to pay with lives) and when it does the rewards are less permanent. This shouldn't even be a point of contention, any idiot knows humans don't respond well to threats.

Since when did diplomacy work with people willing to blow themselves up? And those who lead/support those people willing to blow themselves up?

[F.J. Mitchell]

Well let's consider how a Democracy (Representative Republic, in our case)turns itself into a Dictatorship?

The Senate member is elected and can either be voted out, recalled or impeached-The House member is elected and can be voted out, recalled or impeached-the President is elected and can be voted out, recalled or impeached.

The Supreme Court members are not elected,(they are appointed for life) so they cannot be voted out, they cannot be recalled and apparently cannot be impeached, for it has never happened.

Only the Supreme court can turn a Representative Republic into a Dictatorship, but not entirely unassisted, It's dictatorial edicts must be extremely pleasing to one of the major political party's at the time and enabling the agenda it craves but could never attain through the Constitutionally legal legislative proccess.

The US Supreme court has given the liberal Democrats the boost toward the Socialist state it so rabidly craves, and the Democrats are willing to sell their souls to Satan if neccessary, (many obviously already have) to ensure that only activist, socialistic minded Judges are ever confirmed to seats on the higher courts of America.

The transformation from a Republic to a Dictatorship only looks like a bloodless coup, because the blood of 55 million slaughtered Americans happened behind closed doors in abortatoriums across America and was ignored by a MSM that also idolizes dictatorships and finds ecstacy at the thought of innocent blood being spilled, no less than did those ghouls of the final days of decadent and dying Rome.

[longtermmemmory]

I wonder if this is related to S.Speilberg's uncredited assistance to Lucas.

[af_vet_rr]

I think Darth Vader is George Lucas. He thinks he's good, and what he's accomplishing is good, when in fact it is evil and harmful.

If you think about it, it's pretty self evident, he's working out his own faults on the screen.

He has had a problem with women in his personal life, and he does tend to seclude himself most of the time....

What I'm more curious about, is the impact that WWII has had on his life, i.e. his close relatives, how he was raised, what he was told, etc., for a couple of reasons.

The first would be the Indiana Jones trilogy - began and ended with Nazis.

The second would be the Star Wars trilogies. When my wife and I were in line last night, there was a young man in front of us who we were talking to about the movies. He rattled off all of the WWII influences on the SW trilogies, and while I was very aware of some of them, others caught me off guard (When I was his age, that was about the time the first movie came out in '77, and I was fanatical about the movie as well).
- Chancellor - Hitler and Palpatine both were, and both came to power in almost the same way.
- Hitler and Palpatine both portrayed themselves as victims in their early rise through the ranks.
- Other groups were blamed for their problems - Poles, Jews, etc. with Germany, Jedi, robots, independent planets, etc. in 'Sith.
- Reichstag Fire, Poland, etc. - paralleled "manufactured" events in 'Sith that were carried out to enable a justification for more power.
- The people voting the villains into office and giving them the powers they want - Happened in Germany, happened in the movies.
- The uniforms and aerial combat - Imperial uniforms in the movies were "inspired" by Japanese uniforms, as was the space combat inspired by some of the aerial battles of WWII.
- Both villains whipped the people up into a frenzy/hysteria, and got them to engage in things that they wouldn't have otherwise done.
- Both villians manipulated people whose intentions were good, and they didn't see it coming.

There was a lot more, and while it makes Lucas look like he ripped everything off from WWII (or Vietnam if he wants to say that), there really isn't all that much wrong with retelling history - it does repeat itself after all.

While the government (I'm going to lump all three branches together for the purpose of this little rant) has given itself some powers since 9/11 that make many of us here very uncomfortable, I think what scares us even worse, is the thought that liberals will be back in control of the Congress, the White House, etc., at some point in the future. I think that makes many uncomfortable, especially when they see something like Revenge of the Sith. It's fairly easy to ignore what happened with Nazi Germany - for most of us, it's something our parents participated in (or grandparents if your a young 'un), but when you see these kinds of things played out on the big screen in front of you, and you see just how easy it is to whip the people up into hysteria, it's hard to pretend it could never happen again.

[af_vet_rr]

Only the Supreme court can turn a Representative Republic into a Dictatorship, but not entirely unassisted, It's dictatorial edicts must be extremely pleasing to one of the major political party's at the time and enabling the agenda it craves but could never attain through the Constitutionally legal legislative proccess.

Congress determines the number of Justices on the SC - in theory, if "Conservatives"* in Congress didn't like the way the SCOTUS was headed, they could change the numbers (it's varied from 6-10 over the history of the SCOTUS). They could reduce the number of Justices by removing seats as Justices retired/died, or they could add seats.

This probably wouldn't go over very well now though - the last time somebody tried to do this, FDR in '36 or '37, it was shot down by the Senate, and the current political environment is much more hostile.

*I use the term "Conservative" loosely when talking about Republicans in Washington - too many seem to become less and less Conservative once they make it to Washington.

[af_vet_rr]

Only the Supreme court can turn a Representative Republic into a Dictatorship,

I forgot to make my point in my last post - I got sidetracked. What I was going to say was, it wouldn't take the SC to turn a Representative Republic into a Dictatorship in America, or at least what we consider to be a traditional Dictatorship - ala Hitler, Stalin, Castro, etc..

In this day and age in America, travel, communication, and banking can easily be controlled by Congress. You control those three things, you don't have to have an old-fashioned Dictatorship, you've effectively created a new kind of Dictatorship, that is just as controlling as the old-fashioned Dictatorships of Stalin, Castro, etc.

[garbanzo]

The issue was, how does a democracy turn itself into a dictatorship?

Just saw the movie today. The politics are fairly muted but if there are any historical parallels, it's more the rise of the Third Reich, struggle of power between the Holy Roman Empire and the Church, and the end of the Roman Republic. Overall a good film, one I think the actors got into more than the others.

[F.J. Mitchell]

It's scary how fragile our grasp upon our treasured liberties, really is.

[Pelayo]

Since when did diplomacy work with people willing to blow themselves up? And those who lead/support those people willing to blow themselves up?

I never advocated the use of diplomacy (I assume by this you mean negotiations) with terrorists, or their patrons.

There is no room for neutrality in this war.

Philosophically your right, but your position is illogical from a practical standpoint, since it leads to the theory that we are at war with all nations not specifically backing us? It's also bad psychology to assume that someone who disagrees with you must agree with your enemy.

[Paul_Denton]

Philosophically your right, but your position is illogical from a practical standpoint, since it leads to the theory that we are at war with all nations not specifically backing us? It's also bad psychology to assume that someone who disagrees with you must agree with your enemy.

Well france and germany opposed us because they were bribed by Saddam. Not only that both are now trying to form an axis with China. Not what I would call neutral.

[CaptIsaacDavis]

Check out the camo pattern on a few special ops type "Stormtroopers" for the battle to save the Wookies -- looked German WW2 SS style. Concidence? There was another odd reference in this latest film to a planet sounding like "Otepaa" (the name of a small town in Estonia that was a key German military command center in 1941-42). "Stormtroopers" and a Darth Vader helmet that looks like a German WW2 helmet in caracature, and selective use of a color close to German military gray for senior commander outfits in the first 1977 Star Wars, the use of an army built in secret (like Germany violating Versailles provisions ), cloning as a proxy for racial purity for the storm troopers, as well as the theme of how a dictator comes to power in a parliamentary democracy, all smack of 1970s-style allegories to the Nazi experience. Does that make the Jedi Council a representation of the Socialist International and/or Third International (with supposed special insight into "scientific understanding" of the way the world really works) -- where Hitler or the Chancellor turned Emperor in Star Wars, apply the "dark-side" of socialist totalitarianism?

[Pelayo]

Well france[sic] and germany[sic] opposed us because they were bribed by Saddam.

I did not know you could bribe whole nations.

Not only that both are now trying to form an axis with China.

As sovereign countries they have a theoretical right to ally with what ever forces they wish. Being belligerent about it will probably just reinforce their position.

Not what I would call neutral.

So you think we should be at war with the rest of the world? Do you think Bush actually had that in mind when he proposed a strict dichotomy in this war?

Theoretically if he did, then it would at least be principled to propose such a dichotomy (though it would still be naïve philosophically, and impractical), but I don't think he did. I think it was just demagoguery since the line was directed at this nation and has not been applied universally in dealings with other nations.

So either Bush is impractical and naïve, or he is a demagogue from my perspective. I don't think he's an idiot, so I'll go with demagogue. Because our nation is morphing into a pure democracy Bush has to be a demagogue. I don't hold it against him; I just wish it wasn't happening.

[Paul_Denton]

As sovereign countries they have a theoretical right to ally with what ever forces they wish. Being belligerent about it will probably just reinforce their position.

And appeasing them would do the same. But I am glad Bush has threatened sanctions on the EU if they do that.

I would rather be at war with the whole world than let terrorists attack us or the chicoms get any more NATO war tech than they already got right now.

[Pelayo]

And appeasing them would do the same.

So the only options are appeasing or threatening? I'm glade Bush knows there is more to diplomacy then that. I just wish we didn't live in a system that forces him to genuflect to the ignorance and passions of the herd for votes. It's sets up a bad precedent, and an expectation for action which he cannot take and which would in the long run be counter productive.

Obi-Wan's line about being loyal to democracy is stupid for a zeal for narrow absolutism, and false dichotomies is something historically democratic majorities share with Sith lords.

[Paul_Denton]

I just wish we didn't live in a system that forces him to genuflect to the ignorance and passions of the herd for votes. It's sets up a bad precedent, and an expectation for action which he cannot take and which would in the long run be counter productive.

The frogs and kruats are not our allies and neither is the left. Yeah they can side with China but they will no longer be allies, and Bush made that clear through sanctions and not sharing any more military technology with the EU. Your "shades of gray" argument is moot.

Obi-Wan's line about being loyal to democracy is stupid for a zeal for narrow absolutism, and false dichotomies is something historically democratic majorities share with Sith lords.

Well if that makes me a Sith lord then I am proud of it.

[ArGee]

But you're right, where you and I live it is required. I just don't like it.

I won't agree to your calling it demagoguery, but I will agree that it's not right. One of the proofs that G-d exists, IMHO, ist that there is no evidence that there has ever been any other way than fighting to defend what is yours, yet we all know that's not the way it's supposed to be.

Shalom.