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Proposed NJ Law: Seize Homes w/Illegal Guns
World Net Daily ^ | May 10, 2005 | Ron Strom

Posted on 05/15/2005 4:57:55 AM PDT by publiusF27

A New Jersey state assemblyman has introduced a bill that would allow the government to seize the home or car of anyone whose property contains an illegal firearm.

The legislation, sponsored by Assemblyman Louis Manzo, D-Jersey City, authorizes the forfeiture of "motor vehicle, building or premise" if a firearm is found in it that is not possessed legally per state law – "even if the firearm was not possessed by the owner of the motor vehicle, building or premise," states a summary of the bill, A3998. The legislation was introduced Thursday.

Manzo pointed out his bill extends government power now reserved for targeting those in possession of illegal drugs.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: abuse; assetforfeiture; bang; banglist; communistdemocrats; donutwatch; drugs; fascist; forfeiture; govwatch; guns; libertarians; naziism; nazisob; newjersey; sopranostan; stalinistproposal; wodlist
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To: Know your rights
"Relevant only if they believed themselves Constitutionally empowered to outlaw slavery."

You are a piece of work.

They wrote and ratified the rules of the game -- hypocritical to claim after the fact that the U.S. Constitution doesn't give them the power.

221 posted on 05/21/2005 7:10:13 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: publiusF27
"Not only is that not true, but further, they would not even allow it if the person WERE convicted of a crime."

Asset forfeiture as a result of treason is expressly forbidden by Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. That's it.

Federal asset forfeiture for all other federal crimes was forbidden only by statute. There's no constitutional protection, simply a law providing one.

That's the way the people felt then. Today, they feel differently. They call that democracy.

222 posted on 05/21/2005 7:21:57 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: publiusF27
First, that's not "stems and seeds". Second, are you proposing to argue each case? Do I have to defend each and every case that you bring up to make my point? Does the application of the law have to be 100% perfect for you to be satisfied?

Debating is more than some "cut and paste" job from a conspiracy website like fear.org.

(CAFRA made it illegal for a government agency to share the proceeds of an asset forfeiture with a private entity -- the driving force behind the above cases.)

223 posted on 05/21/2005 7:45:18 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: publiusF27
So you're saying that a scumbag drug dealer should be allowed to keep the assets purchased with drug money? I suppose a bank robber should be allowed to keep the money when caught? Ditto for a white-collar embezzler?

According to you, if they get off on some technicality the money's theirs, right?

224 posted on 05/21/2005 7:55:23 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

Are you serious? Give me a break. It is people like you that fought for the British.


225 posted on 05/21/2005 8:20:33 AM PDT by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Nov3

Serious as a heart attack.


226 posted on 05/21/2005 8:28:44 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Many. But that's not to say that the decision was unconstitutional, as you seem to be saying in this thread.

Glad to hear you've seen a court get it wrong. For a minute there, I thought you believed that impossible.

In this thread, I've been saying it's a bad policy, and it's wrong. You're confusing this thread with that other one I started.
227 posted on 05/21/2005 9:45:39 AM PDT by publiusF27
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To: robertpaulsen
So you're saying that a scumbag drug dealer should be allowed to keep the assets purchased with drug money? I suppose a bank robber should be allowed to keep the money when caught? Ditto for a white-collar embezzler? According to you, if they get off on some technicality the money's theirs, right?

Who PROVED that he was a dealer, or that the assets came from the drug biz? Because if no one proved it, the government should not be able to act like someone did by saying that the property looks guilty of something, so forget about proving anything about the person.

Who proved that he was a bank robber, and that is the money he stole? Because if no one proved it...

As you can see, we can talk about all the examples you want. My friend, the Monkey Business, Willie Jones, any of them. It's always going to be the same issue: pretending that property can commit a crime, and punishing property, as if that has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of the owner.
228 posted on 05/21/2005 9:49:07 AM PDT by publiusF27
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To: robertpaulsen
Debating is more than some "cut and paste" job from a conspiracy website like fear.org.

I've posted two pieces from them (among other things) in this thread. Where is the conspiracy? Where are the inaccuracies? Or are you just hoping to get away with a general slam, without actually pointing out any deficiencies in the arguments?
229 posted on 05/21/2005 9:52:38 AM PDT by publiusF27
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To: robertpaulsen

"Don't you believe in state's rights? 10th amendment and all that? Or do you want the federal government to write your laws?"

C-O-N-S-T-I-T-U-T-I-O-N.


230 posted on 05/21/2005 9:53:09 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: publiusF27
"Glad to hear you've seen a court get it wrong."

I didn't say that. I said I've disagreed with their decisions.

Since Marbury v Madison, the USSC interprets the U.S. Constitution. If they do the interpretation, by whose standards are they "wrong"?

231 posted on 05/21/2005 11:15:13 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Did you disagree because you thought they got it right?

I didn't say that my interpretation should govern. Obviously, it should not. I'm saying mine is right, theirs is wrong, and we ought to work to change both the law and the interpretations until crimes are punished under criminal law, and debts and other such things are handled under civil law. Punishing crimes under civil law is wrong. IN MY OPINION, BY MY STANDARDS.
232 posted on 05/21/2005 11:17:52 AM PDT by publiusF27
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To: publiusF27
"Punishing crimes under civil law is wrong."

Fine. Guy robs a bank, they've got it on video, he confesses, his lawyer gets him off because some rookie cop forgets to read him his Miranda rights, and he gets to keep the money -- IN YOUR OPINION, BY YOUR STANDARDS.

233 posted on 05/21/2005 11:22:20 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: publiusF27; Carry_Okie; forester; sasquatch; B4Ranch; SierraWasp; hedgetrimmer; knews_hound; ...


234 posted on 05/21/2005 11:24:35 AM PDT by farmfriend (Down with the sickness -Disturbed)
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To: publiusF27
"Did you disagree because you thought they got it right?"

No. I simply interpreted the U.S. Constitution differently.

235 posted on 05/21/2005 11:25:36 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: thoughtomator
Hate your neighbor? Toss a gun on his property and call the police.

Absolutely. ....and it works with drugs, too.

Corrupt cops can get in on the action as well (and sometimes do).

These types of laws are made-to-order for criminals. ...both within the gov't and without.

236 posted on 05/21/2005 11:26:24 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: farmfriend


237 posted on 05/21/2005 11:30:29 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: robertpaulsen
Fine. Guy robs a bank, they've got it on video, he confesses, his lawyer gets him off because some rookie cop forgets to read him his Miranda rights, and he gets to keep the money -- IN YOUR OPINION, BY YOUR STANDARDS.

Do they get to throw him in jail? Why not? Because punishment requires a conviction.

It seems to me that the important thing in that case would be to get the thug off the streets. We're willing to give up that important goal for one more important: due process. Is grabbing the money so much more important than protecting society from the thug, so that we must circumvent due process in order to achieve it?

Taking property is punishment. It's punishment for the person, not the property, and this fiction that property can be guilty and that property is being punished is what I just can't swallow. By taking that money, you're talking about punishing a crime without a conviction. That's wrong.
238 posted on 05/21/2005 12:40:50 PM PDT by publiusF27
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To: robertpaulsen
No. I simply interpreted the U.S. Constitution differently.

Uh huh. And the difference would be...?

Maybe that you thought your interpretation was better or more correct than the one reached by the courts? In other words, that you were right, and they were wrong?
239 posted on 05/21/2005 12:44:33 PM PDT by publiusF27
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To: robertpaulsen

By the way, I don't mind working with far-fetched examples that are one sided and completely made up by you. Just so ya know. ;)


240 posted on 05/21/2005 12:46:12 PM PDT by publiusF27
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