Posted on 05/09/2005 11:35:25 PM PDT by Crackingham
While Kansas State Board of Education members spent three days soaking up from critics of evolution about how the theory should be taught in public schools, many scientists refused to participate in the board's public hearings. But evolution's defenders were hardly silent last week, nor are they likely to be Thursday, when the hearings are set to conclude. They have offered public rebuttals after each day's testimony. Their tactics led the intelligent design advocates -- hoping to expose Kansas students to more criticism of evolution -- to accuse them of ducking the debate over the theory. But Kansas scientists who defend evolution said the hearings were rigged against the theory. They also said they don't see the need to cram their arguments into a few days of testimony, like out-of-state witnesses called by intelligent design advocates.
"They're in, they do their schtick, and they're out," said Keith Miller, a Kansas State University geologist. "I'm going to be here, and I'm not going to be quiet. We'll have the rest of our lives to make our points."
The scientists' boycott, led by the American Association for the Advancement of Science and Kansas Citizens for Science, frustrated board members who viewed their hearings as an educational forum.
"I am profoundly disappointed that they've chosen to present their case in the shadows," said board member Connie Morris, of St. Francis. "I would have enjoyed hearing what they have to say in a professional, ethical manner."
Intelligent design advocates challenge evolutionary theory that natural chemical processes can create life, that all life on Earth had a common origin and that man and apes had a common ancestor. Intelligent design says some features of the natural world are best explained by an intelligent cause because they are well ordered and complex. The science groups' leaders said Morris and the other two members of the board subcommittee presiding at the hearings already have decided to support language backed by intelligent design advocates. All three are part of a conservative board majority receptive to criticism of evolution. The entire board plans to consider changes this summer in standards that determine how students will be tested statewide in science.
Alan Leshner, AAAS chief executive officer, dismissed the hearings as "political theater."
"There is no cause for debate, so why are they having them?" he said. "They're trying to imply that evolution is a controversial concept in science, and that's absolutely not true."
Are you saying creationists don't question anything? That they haven't changed any positions ever? Do you really believe that or is that just your way of dismissing them as inconsequential to the overall debate on the theory of evolution?
"Science is highly political."
And don't forget who gets grants and peer reviews and publications. Anyone who argues that science isn't politcal must not live in the real world.
Nope. Hmmm... Read all the links from both Ichneumon's and PatrickHenry's home pages. You might be surprized at just how much is known and where your statement is in error.
Neither, I'm trying to tease a definition of "kind" out of them. If there is a definition of "kind" written down, they we can talk about it's merits, other possible definitions, study exceptions and so on. If they won't give a definition then what can be done? Nothing. No science, no predicitions, no exploration or discussion.
The kids in the pic look like they are Japanese. In Asia, creationism is look upon as a quaint myth. People that believe in creationism, in Japan, are typically though of as having meantal health problems. The point of the photo poster was that Kansas is leading its students to the new Dark Ages, where ignorance and superstition replace education and thinking. I've been to some fundamentalist churches where it is preached that it is better to be uneducated, ignorant and going to Heaven than to be educated and damned to Hell for learning and believing anti-Christian ideas. This is the type of mentallity that rejects evolution, or any other scientific idea that isn't scripturally sound. When these people get into power, as they have on the Kansas State Education Board, they will do whatever it takes to force change the cirriculum to reflect their fundamentalist beliefs. Without well educated kids, the U.S. will lose her place in the world as a technological superpower. A country that bases it core beliefs on strict fundamentalism cannot survive as a strong country. Just look at the Islamic states to see what happens when religious fervor trumps sound education. Over there, the Koran is seen as the source of all education and wisdom. And look at how backward and barbaric those places are. That's why creationism is a cancer in the conservative movement.
Should my elf theory of planetary movement be taught along side the theory of gravity?
Shhh... big secret.
I am truly curious. What negatives?
You are giving the creationists way too much credit. They HAVE NOT said they want the teaching of the theory of evolution stopped. They want it questioned. Why are the evos so freaked out by that? And, believe it or not, there are Christians who are also scientists, though the vast majority of scientists admit to being atheists. And, by the way, how much evolution do you think is currently taught in US high schools now? Do you think there are a lot of qualified science teachers teaching in high schools? Do you have kids in public high schools now?
According to the statements of the people giving 'testimony' last week, this is not the case. The ID people all gave testimony that there are all evolutionists are atheists, weren't you listening? It was Dr. Miller and others outside the courtroom pleading your point, not the people on the stand.
One thing that I'm sure scientists do agree on. And that's the fact that criticisms of evolution can continue forever. But until a superior alternative explanation is offered that explains all the observed data, then evolution stands.
Come on now. Be honest - you don't believe there are any negatives in the entire theory of evolution? Of course not. But we are all just rehashing the same old arguments every day on here. You won't convince those who question evolution and we (those who question evolution) won't convince anyone else. So basically we are all just wasting our time. Luckily my boss is on vacation so I have nothing better to do at the moment.
The part of this discussion that amazes me is how some think that if you understand evolution, then you must be an atheist.
Whatever you say is absolutely right. No argument from me.
Not most of them I work with.
I misunderstood! My apologies.
The problem is that "those who question evolution" have yet to offer up an alternative to it.
The proposal that some unknown "intelligence" created the species is analogous to the slang term "sh!t happens". It explains everything, and nothing. It is meaningless.
Until a positive alternative for evolution is proposed, then evolution stands, criticism and all.
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