Avian Flu Surveillance Project

Various ^ | May 9, 2005 | Vanity

[Dog Gone]

Some folks suggested that we begin a thread similar to the Marsburg Surveillance Project for monitoring developments regarding Avian Flu.

The purpose is to have an extended thread where those interested can post articles and comments as this story unfolds.

If we're lucky, the story and this thread will fade away.

[ThePythonicCow]

Thanks! - Bump.

[steve86]

Of course, it is better not to get the flu in the first place. That is why NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) is high on my list (e.g. reference from Swedish Medical Center Hospital, Seattle).

http://www.swedish.org/110925.cfm

Actually, it didn't really prevent infection. "Rather, the supplement seemed to reduce the rate at which influenza infection became severe enough to cause noticeable symptoms."

Also, for new readers, curcumin is the active ingredient from turmeric. Turmeric used as spice has far too little to be useful. It should be in a concentrated form (about 95% standardized). And curcumin in any form has to be supplemented by an absorption facilitator (i.e. piperine), or it is not absorbed effectively. The usual cautions about piperine over-facilitating absorption of prescription medications applies and should be observed.

[2ndreconmarine]

I also take my elderberry "potion" on days I go out in public, just before and just after.

My son came down with this year's flu (not bird flu, obviously) this last weekend. He got it full-bore. I immediately gave him Sambucol in large doses. The fever broke in 36 hours and all symptoms (nausea, fever, headaches, bodyaches, coughing) were gone in 3.5 days. This stuff is great.

[2ndreconmarine]

That is why NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) is high on my list (e.g. reference from Swedish Medical Center

Thank you for this addition. Also, thank you for the reference. We now have peer-reviewed journal articles for every single item.

The location where I buy Turmeric has it as a supplement, not a spice. It is standardized to 95% curcuminoids.

Thank you all for your responses.

BTW, all of the items we have discussed I have purchased very inexpensively at: Swanson Vitamins, and no I don't own stock or anything. The entire list can be had in reasonable quantity for under $100.

The revised list is then:

Vitamin C
Resveratrol
Sambucol (this is somewhat controversial, but I like it)
Cinnamon
Turmeric (standardized to 95% curcuminoids)
St. Johns Wort
Ginger
N-Acetyl Cysteine

By the way, an interesting observation I have made about all of this. Most of these items are listed as antioxidants in the nutritional catalogs, in fact, all of them are antioxidants except Sambucol, St. Johns Wort, and maybe Cinnamon.

[steve86]

I hadn't seen that NAC-Sustain product before, interesting! Time release is always a nice feature.

The reason I brought up standardization and percentage of active ingredient is that some people will buy a product just because they see the name, when in fact the potency varies wildly. We have seen the articles indicating that standardization isn't a perfect science either, but it's a start.

When I went through my lists and purchased OTC products, I first ordered two of each. Then I went back and ordered four of each. Now I'm going to order another four (I'll order the NAC-Sustain this time). With a product like NAC, if you have a few people in the family and take it twice a day, a bottle doesn't last long!

Same with Elderberry extract. I did choose the Planetary Formulas brand because it had twice the potency per volume, but it has since gone up twice in price!

[Judith Anne]

Also, for new readers, curcumin is the active ingredient from turmeric. Turmeric used as spice has far too little to be useful. It should be in a concentrated form (about 95% standardized). And curcumin in any form has to be supplemented by an absorption facilitator (i.e. piperine), or it is not absorbed effectively. The usual cautions about piperine over-facilitating absorption of prescription medications applies and should be observed

Actually, regular turmeric has enough curcuminoids to be effective for easing symptoms of RA, in doses of approximately 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. I know much larger or more concentrated amounts are safe (except for people with gall stones, who should not take turmeric at all). I imagine effective doses vary. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 95% curcumin (which I haven't found except online, just not available in my rural area) in case of a bad case of flu, just emphasizing that smaller doses can be effective as well.

[Judith Anne]

Again, the turmeric is effective for ME. Others may want or need curcumin 95%.

[steve86]

just emphasizing that smaller doses can be effective as well.

But for cytokine suppression? I know there is one guy on TB2K who uses a less concentrated dose with good results for RA as well.

[steve86]

It is true that curcumin has been used in Ayurvedic and Chinese traditional medicine for thousands of years at relatively low doses.

[ThePythonicCow]

I will second the recommendation of Swanson Vitamins,

"Antioxidants" has become a strong marketing word in vitamin/nutrition sales. Perhaps someday someone can explain it to me in a way that I find persuasive. For now, that word triggers my hype-sensor more than it satisfies my understanding.

[ThePythonicCow]

Resveratrol

There seems to be a significant controversy over whether most resveratrol supplements are worth a darn. The claim of one producer of resveratrol supplement, Longevintex, is that all the other supplements are nearly inactive, due to how easy it is to oxidize resveratrol. That one product uses air tight, nitrogen packed, opaque capsules, and costs about one dollar a cap.

But elsewhere, I saw speculation that the claims of the uselessness of most resveratrol supplements was a ploy by the big pharmaceuticals to reduce the impact that that supplement risked having on their drug sales.

Do a Google search for Longevinex for more details.

As best as I can tell, the jury is still out.

We need some lab or clinical trials on the usefulness of ordinary resveratrol supplements, not lab grade, nitrogen packed stuff.

[Judith Anne]

Ordinary everyday metabolic processes produce a certain number of free radicals--unstable molecules that can interfere with the functions of body cells in important ways. Some interference can be with cell reproduction, replacing healthy cells with daughter cells that have DNA damage from the free radicals. Free radicals can also interfere with cell functions, such as the manufacture of enzymes, etc.

Antioxidants join with free radicals in the body to render them harmless. There is only a limited supply of antioxidants, they are supplied mainly by diet. A number of foods, INCLUDING FRESH COFFEE, have a high level of antioxidant chemicals in them which help prevent degenerative changes caused by the free radicals.

Antioxidants are real, and they are a GOOD thing--help you stay physiologically young and healthy. Not hype. ;-D

(Simplified very basic explanation, hope it helps.)

[ThePythonicCow]

If you do a Google search for "suppression TNF alpha synthesis Cat's claw cytokine", you will find reference to some studies that conclude that Cat's Claw is affective at suppressing TNF-alpha synthesis, hence reducing cytokine storms.

I'm adding Cat's Claw to my collection.

[ThePythonicCow]

That's one big dog in that picture on your FR home page.

The "story" behind antioxidants you relate quite clearly. I have no doubt of the chemistry you describe.

It strikes me that this simple chemical bonding mechanism is applicable to a wide variety of reactions, chemicals and nutrients. It is almost like saying "wet is good", referring to the body's need for water.

There are too many nutrients with antioxidant properties for that attribute to provide much guidance. The studies I've seen (though I have not seriously researched this) show that various good foods and nutrients which are among those with antioxidant properties have various healthy affects, but it is seldom clear that it is exactly the antioxidant property that is responsible for the healthy affect, and too often supplementation with the specific antioxidant chemical (vitamin, mineral, ...) is less successful in demonstrating healthy affects. While such clinical trials seem to be inconclusive, it is patently clear from the labeling and marketing of nutritional supplements that the word "antioxidant" has become a sales driver, rather like the word "sale" for women's clothing.

The end result is that I have not found the label of "antioxidant" a useful guide in selecting nutritional supplements.

[ThePythonicCow]

A good article on antioxidants: Some Good Things to Say About Free Radicals. This was written about ten years ago. The author had been taking increasing doses of antioxidants over the years, and after further study, cut back to ordinary doses, and was less fatigued.

My intuition is that specific remedies for specific ailments, such as tumeric for arthritis, aren't simply a case of "antioxidants are good", but rather have more specific affects, caused by specific compounds, on the particulars of the ailment.

[EBH]

Good reading this morning. Thanks for all the information regarding suppliments. I'll look into them all and make sure they won't be interfering with anything I am currently taking.

[Iowa Granny]

How much Cinnamon, Tumeric and Ginger is recommeded daily to improve immunity?

[bitt]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/28/051128144954.1qt0p6wv.html
drudge/China/mutating story

[Judith Anne]

How much Cinnamon, Tumeric and Ginger is recommeded daily to improve immunity?

Cinnamon, Turmeric and Ginger are spices, foods, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no recommended daily amount.

If you buy them as supplements, bottled and in gelcaps, the bottle will have a recommended amount to take, on it.