Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
Locked on 05/10/2005 7:26:32 AM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:

By request



Skip to comments.

Hitler's secret Indian army
BBC ^ | 9/23/2004 | By Mike Thomson

Posted on 05/09/2005 9:08:05 AM PDT by minus_273

In the closing stages of World War II, as Allied and French resistance forces were driving Hitler's now demoralised forces from France, three senior German officers defected.

Legionnaires were recruited from German POW camps The information they gave British intelligence was considered so sensitive that in 1945 it was locked away, not due to be released until the year 2021.

Now, 17 years early, the BBC's Document programme has been given special access to this secret file.

It reveals how thousands of Indian soldiers who had joined Britain in the fight against fascism swapped their oaths to the British king for others to Adolf Hitler - an astonishing tale of loyalty, despair and betrayal that threatened to rock British rule in India, known as the Raj.

The story the German officers told their interrogators began in Berlin on 3 April 1941. This was the date that the left-wing Indian revolutionary leader, Subhas Chandra Bose, arrived in the German capital.

Bose, who had been arrested 11 times by the British in India, had fled the Raj with one mission in mind. That was to seek Hitler's help in pushing the British out of India.

He wanted 500 volunteers who would be trained in Germany and then parachuted into India. Everyone raised their hands. Thousands of us volunteered Lieutenant Barwant Singh Six months later, with the help of the German foreign ministry, he had set up what he called "The Free India Centre", from where he published leaflets, wrote speeches and organised broadcasts in support of his cause.

By the end of 1941, Hitler's regime officially recognised his provisional "Free India Government" in exile, and even agreed to help Chandra Bose raise an army to fight for his cause. It was to be called "The Free India Legion".

Bose hoped to raise a force of about 100,000 men which, when armed and kitted out by the Germans, could be used to invade British India.

He decided to raise them by going on recruiting visits to Prisoner-of-War camps in Germany which, at that time, were home to tens of thousands of Indian soldiers captured by Rommel in North Africa.

Volunteers

Finally, by August 1942, Bose's recruitment drive got fully into swing. Mass ceremonies were held in which dozens of Indian POWs joined in mass oaths of allegiance to Adolf Hitler.

Chandra Bose did not live to see Indian independence These are the words that were used by men that had formally sworn an oath to the British king: "I swear by God this holy oath that I will obey the leader of the German race and state, Adolf Hitler, as the commander of the German armed forces in the fight for India, whose leader is Subhas Chandra Bose."

I managed to track down one of Bose's former recruits, Lieutenant Barwant Singh, who can still remember the Indian revolutionary arriving at his prisoner of war camp.

"He was introduced to us as a leader from our country who wanted to talk to us," he said.

"He wanted 500 volunteers who would be trained in Germany and then parachuted into India. Everyone raised their hands. Thousands of us volunteered."

Demoralised

In all 3,000 Indian prisoners of war signed up for the Free India Legion.

But instead of being delighted, Bose was worried. A left-wing admirer of Russia, he was devastated when Hitler's tanks rolled across the Soviet border.

Matters were made even worse by the fact that after Stalingrad it became clear that the now-retreating German army would be in no position to offer Bose help in driving the British from faraway India.

When the Indian revolutionary met Hitler in May 1942 his suspicions were confirmed, and he came to believe that the Nazi leader was more interested in using his men to win propaganda victories than military ones.

So, in February 1943, Bose turned his back on his legionnaires and slipped secretly away aboard a submarine bound for Japan.

Rudolf Hartog remembers parting with his Indian friends There, with Japanese help, he was to raise a force of 60,000 men to march on India.

Back in Germany the men he had recruited were left leaderless and demoralised. After mush dissent and even a mutiny, the German High Command despatched them first to Holland and then south-west France, where they were told to help fortify the coast for an expected allied landing.

After D-Day, the Free India Legion, which had now been drafted into Himmler's Waffen SS, were in headlong retreat through France, along with regular German units.

It was during this time that they gained a wild and loathsome reputation amongst the civilian population.

The former French Resistance fighter, Henri Gendreaux, remembers the Legion passing through his home town of Ruffec: "I do remember several cases of rape. A lady and her two daughters were raped and in another case they even shot dead a little two-year-old girl."

Finally, instead of driving the British from India, the Free India Legion were themselves driven from France and then Germany.

Their German military translator at the time was Private Rudolf Hartog, who is now 80.

"The last day we were together an armoured tank appeared. I thought, my goodness, what can I do? I'm finished," he said.

"But he only wanted to collect the Indians. We embraced each other and cried. You see that was the end."

Mutinies

A year later the Indian legionnaires were sent back to India, where all were released after short jail sentences.

But when the British put three of their senior officers on trial near Delhi there were mutinies in the army and protests on the streets.

With the British now aware that the Indian army could no longer be relied upon by the Raj to do its bidding, independence followed soon after.

Not that Subhas Chandra Bose was to see the day he had fought so hard for. He died in 1945.

Since then little has been heard of Lieutenant Barwant Singh and his fellow legionnaires.

At the end of the war the BBC was forbidden from broadcasting their story and this remarkable saga was locked away in the archives, until now. Not that Lieutenant Singh has ever forgotten those dramatic days.

"In front of my eyes I can see how we all looked, how we would all sing and how we all talked about what eventually would happen to us all," he said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allies; axis; britain; europe; germany; hitler; india; militaryhistory; nazi; veday; wwii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-116 next last
To: x; Sam the Sham; minus_273
Just because he didnt suck up to the socialist, communist or liberal democrats, doesnt automatically qualify Bose as a "fascist". I see that some Freepers are falling prey to the Indian Commie propaganda of who is a fascist or not.

Bose was a nationalist and a libertarian, he was repulsed by the very notion of a welfare "socialistic" state that Nehru had in mind.

But he wasnt right wing or even related to any HINDU fundamentalist group either. The people who assassinated Gandhi were Hindu fanatics who were religiously insular. They had NO contact with Bose or vice versa, infact, Bose would've gone after them first if he had come to power. Afterall, some of his most trusted aides were muslims.

Bose, was a super intelligent person (educated in UK, he topped the British civil services exam) known to be very charismatic and charming.. he envisoned a secular and capitalistic state out of India, which he thought could only be realized by a violent revolution agains the brits, not by the non-violent, pacifistic means that Gandhi was envisoning and the socialistic welfare economy that Nehru was proposing.. he was very much against these two notions, and thats why he left the Indian National Congress.

He was an undeniable patriot, whose legacy is now exploited by the left, right and centre to their own benefit, and some Indian liberals are defiling it just for the sake of media attention..

81 posted on 05/09/2005 5:21:53 PM PDT by desidude_in_us (You live and learn. Or you don't live long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: x; minus_273; Genghis Khan

Then we can call Bose the Indian Eamon de Valera.


82 posted on 05/09/2005 6:28:08 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: desidude_in_us

thats why he was in league with hitler.


83 posted on 05/09/2005 6:34:44 PM PDT by minus_273
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: desidude_in_us

actually i've agreed with him on that point. he's trying to press an argument where there is none. Likely because he doesn't like something else I posted but can't refute that.


84 posted on 05/09/2005 6:36:31 PM PDT by minus_273
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Sam the Sham
They did not want brown men killing white men and sleeping with white women.

Have you heard of the Anglo-Indians?

85 posted on 05/09/2005 6:38:43 PM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: CarrotAndStick

Apparently you are talking about pre Mutiny India in which East India Company English melted into the Indian ruling elite. That was not the Raj of 1914.


86 posted on 05/09/2005 6:41:43 PM PDT by Sam the Sham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: Sam the Sham

Nope. Anglo-Indians(children of Indians married to British), had special positions in the British Empire, and still do, in the Indian government today, weren't a short term phenomenon. As long as the British were in India, Anglo-Indians continued to be born.

Here's some interesting facets I dug up with Google® :

http://www.indianchild.com/anglo_indians.htm

Anglo-Indians in India
The largest group of European Indians, however, are descendants of British men, generally from the colonial service and the military, and lower-caste Hindu or Muslim women. From some time in the nineteenth century, both the British and the Indian societies rejected the offspring of these unions, and so the Anglo-Indians, as they became known, sought marriage partners among other Anglo Indians. Over time this group developed a number of caste-like features and acquired a special occupational niche in the railroad, postal, and customs services. A number of factors fostered a strong sense of community among Anglo-Indians. The school system focused on English language and culture and was virtually segregated, as were Anglo-Indian social clubs; the group's adherence to Christianity also set members apart from most other Indians; and distinctive manners, diet, dress, and speech contributed to their segregation.

During the independence movement, many Anglo-Indians identified (or were assumed to identify) with British rule, and, therefore, incurred the distrust and hostility of Indian nationalists. Their position at independence was difficult. They felt a loyalty to a British "home" that most had never seen and where they would gain little social acceptance. They felt insecure in an India that put a premium on participation in the independence movement as a prerequisite for important government positions. Some Anglo-Indians left the country in 1947, hoping to make a new life in Britain or elsewhere in the Commonwealth of Nations, such as Australia or Canada. Many of these people returned to India after unsuccessful attempts to find a place in "alien" societies. Most Anglo-Indians, however, opted to stay in India and made whatever adjustments they deemed necessary.

Like the Parsis, the Anglo-Indians are essentially urban dwellers. Unlike the Parsis, relatively few have attained high levels of education, amassed great wealth, or achieved more than subordinate government positions. In the 1990s, Anglo-Indians remained scattered throughout the country in the larger cities and those smaller towns serving as railroad junctions and communications centers.

Constitutional guarantees of the rights of communities and religious and linguistic minorities permit Anglo-Indians to maintain their own schools and to use English as the medium of instruction. In order to encourage the integration of the community into the larger society, the government stipulates that a certain percentage of the student body come from other Indian communities. There is no evident official discrimination against Anglo-Indians in terms of current government employment. A few have risen to high posts; some are high-ranking officers in the military, and a few are judges. In occupational terms, at least, the assimilation of Anglo-Indians into the mainstream of Indian life was well under way by the 1990s. Nevertheless, the group will probably remain socially distinct as long as its members marry only other Anglo-Indians and its European descent continues to be noted.


87 posted on 05/09/2005 6:53:32 PM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Sam the Sham

One more intersting nugget here...long though.

http://www.indiaprofile.com/lifestyle/angloindians.htm


The Anglo-Indians, children of mixed marriage, were called, the wheels, the cranks, the levers of the Empire building machinery. In the modernization of India they were the pioneers. The Anglo-Indians have a tradition of being punctilious in work, meticulous in appearance and gregarious and lively in food habits, speech and customs.




Anglo-Indians loved and cherished, reared to speak the languages of the ruler and the ruled, their linguistic proficiency and swarthy complexions were utilized to advantage in war and peace, in trade and acquisition in the early days of the East India Company.




Their religion, dress, customs and eventually manners and mores identified them with the British. In turn they were accepted them with the British. In turn they were accepted and rejected according to the political whims of the Directors in London.




There was no escape from Mendel’s Law. The fair sibling climbed high on the ladder while his black brother had to remain on the periphery of the enchanted circle.




The Anglo-Indian is an original Calcutta. He is as old as the city itself. Job Charnock, the founder of Calcutta, was the father of three daughters by his Indian wife.




The early settlers left their womenfolk at home and so in the 17th and early 18th centuries, it was not uncommon for the Englishman to marry an Indian wife and adopt Indian ways. His children inherited his fortune and were sent home for education.




The name Anglo-Indian was coin to describe an India-returned Englishman. It was not until the early 20th century that the word came to denote the mixed or Eurasian population in India.




At its peak, the community in Calcutta is said to have numbered 50,000far outnumbering the English population in the settlement. In the 18th century, Britain was at war on many fronts in Europe and in the New World. England’s country born children threw in their lot with their fatherland against warring Nawabs and Rajahs. They were an indispensable part of the British army.




After the mulatto uprising in San Domingo in Haiti, country born children were barred from retuning to England for education and a few years later a ban was imposed on their appointments in civil, military and marine services. Indian society did not accept the phirangi, and so anglo-Indian history is fraught with many vicissitudes. Wealthy Eurasian indigo planters, zamindars and merchants bequeathed large endowments for the education of the weaker sections. In the crash of 1833 and again during the slump a century later, many lost their fortunes and their jobs. It is to the community’s credit that they realized the needs of the time and set up educational institutions to equip their children for other jobs.




In Calcutta, among prepared boys for jobs as uncovenanted hands in upper subordinate positions. With their political strength growing in Bengal the British saw the need to use the Eurasian as a go-between.




The opening of the Suez Canal brought the Fishing Fleets to India and mixed marriages were now frowned upon. Their usefulness over and the Empire establish the British pushed those very same country born who had defended the Union jack during the 1857 mutiny with untold valour, into privileged posts with no future. And so the Eurasian abandoned enterprise in favour of secure government service and this was a contributory cause of his economic decline.




The Anglo-Indian officer in the Railways-India, Custom, Police or Port Commissioners has a tradition of being punctilious in work and meticulous in appearance. In the modernization of India, the Anglo-Indian faced the perils of pioneering. He surveyed the unknown terrain, treacherous hills, malarious marshes and dangerously infested jungles. He supervised the laying of railway tracks, of planting telegraph poles, of building housing colonies in way out areas. Rightly have Anglo-Indians been called the wheels the cranks, the levers of Empire building machinery.




Generations of discipline born in the schoolroom and the sports field, bred an esprit de corps in the Anglo-Indian. Many a steam locomotive was manned by a father and son team. They took pride in the tip top condition of the engine and its split-second punctuality, so much so that one could set one’s watch by the Indian Railways.




The Customs Officer with his colleague in the Port Commissioner’s worked hard and played hard. Leslie Claudius and Pat Jansen were Olympic hockey players and retained the gold for India in the 1948 Games.




When Claudius walked into the smoking-room of the Bengal Club in 1990, heads turned in admiring recognition. An all-round sportsman, Claudius remembers fondly how he learnt to play football in his own backyard with the chokra boys. Quite by chance and at the instance of another hockey giant, Dickie Carr he became an Olympic hockey player. He is wistful about the changes in the sports world he knew so well. Nobody cares now he says, thinking of the spontaneous warmth of the pat on the back by a spectator for a game well played.




The pride of the Calcutta Police was its Anglo-Indian Sergeant contingent. These tall hefty lads were prominent on any parade or display astride their red Harley Davidson motorcycles. The story goes that the legendary Ronnie Moore ate his breakfast standing, off the mantelshelf in the Lal Bazaar mess so as not to crush his white satin jean uniform! Many a policeman has dined out on the Sergeant Evans story. The greenhorn sergeant on duty found a car wrongly parked on the main street outside the famous firpo’s restaurant and tea-room. Not satisfied with booking the offending chauffeur, he summoned the owner. Fairweather said the gentleman, I don’t care if you are Fair weather of foul weather reprimanded Evans. My orders stand. The next morning Mr.Fairweather, Commissioner of Police, congratulated and commended Sergeant Evans.




The academic qualifications required for the reserved posts were low, as a result of which few Anglo-Indians aspired to higher studies. Their ambition was stifled, though there have been and still are a few members of the community who rose to the rank of Deputy Commissioner of Police, Member Railway Board and Post Master General. Some have been successful in the legal and medical professions.




Monseigneur Barber, a true Calcutta Anglo-Indian, sits back in his chair with a cigar in his room the Sacred Heart Church in Dharamsala-the gift of a Portuguese lady, Dona Pascoag De Souza. He chuckles over the good old days of his boyhood with characteristic sense of humours. His father was Assistant Value in the quasi government Calcutta Improvement Trust, frequently acting as Chief, but he knew that though he was worth his salt, he would never get the job. The situation changed radically after independence.




Monseigneur Barber tells of the Indian Defense Force (IDF) of the First World War. Jocularly nicknamed the I don’t fight corps, the men were recruited entirely from the Anglo-Indian community under the British officer. He may have been only a lieutenant, but he thought he was a Major General! The Monsignor’s Uncle Carmody who later rose high in the railways with seven others ran the German railway in Africa. When the boys returned home, they had to beg for jobs.




In search of nostalgia, Father Horace Rosario S.J. proved a treasure trove of oral history which he recounted at length in the parlour of St.Xavier’s College on Park Street. Living within themselves, the community developed certain characteristics manifested in the Church, the club and the Boarding School.




Sunday mornings, well dressed families-the women until two decades ago sporting hats, gloves and veils-make their way to their parish church on foot, in rickshaws, in cars and taxis. The majority of Anglo-Inidans in Calcutta today are Catholics.




After Mass, they visit each other’s homes and stay on for a lunch of kofta curry and yellow rice.




A gregarious, fun-loving, musical and convivial people, merriment with lots to eat and drink are a part of the Anglo-Indian life-style. Baptism, first holy communions with all due reverence are celebrated with one big bash at the Grail and Rangers Club. This is the bond that holds the community together, says Father Rosario.




The Railway Institute in the mofussil and the clubs in the cities were an important aspect of their culture. Unlike British clubs, these were never male preserves, but very much a family haunt. The Calcutta Rangers Club founded in 1896, is one of the premier Anglo-Indian Clubs in the country. In sports, the club has nurtured some of the finest hockey, football and basketball teams. The major events in the Club’s social calendar are Housie Nites, and the Balls-Easter, May Queen, Independence Eve and New Year’s Eve. In the days gone by, reminisces one old resident, live five piece bands would play for Rs.30/- a night. Young and old jived, jitterbugged and rock and rolled with gay abandon. In his time, Cedric Coutts sang Charmaine in his charming baritone. Those were the days Scotch whisky was eight annas (50p) a peg. Endless plates of potato chips and bottles of tomato sauce were on the house. Apart from social activities, the Calcutta Rangers Sweep donated large sums to local charities




Boarding schools were another adjunct that catered to the itinerant Anglo-Indians who sent their children to Darjeeling, Nanital, Hazaribagh and Asansol. Organized games were compulsory. Children played all games and became all-rounders.




Boxing was a favourite sport and many were the fans of Kid D’Silva of Calcutta.




Because of the transferable nature of his job, the Anglo-Indian did not think of building his own home. On retirement, Calcutta was the home base for many. They rented houses, flats or rooms in Dharamtalla, bow Bazaar, Ripon Street, Royd Street and the small lanes off Free School Street, once called Colinga which is still their stronghold. The building may be shabby and decrepit, but the home is always neat. Windows are curtained and sheets are aired regularly. Émigrés to Australia have taken this habit with them. The vase of flowers on the teapoy was always freshly filled and the mali (gardner) with his basket of blooms was as regular as the rotiwala (breadman). Plastic flowers are more practical today.




Warm and hospitable, the Anglo-Indian housewife kept an open house. No guest could leave without having had a boxwall’s curry puff or a slice of cake.




Each family has its favourite recipes for prawn curry, vindaloo, jhal frazie and the all time favourite alu chop (potato rissole) to which the individual bawarchi (chef) adds his particular flavour.




Chrismas is the greatest day of the year. Preparations for Barrha Din start months ahead with the bottling of kala jamun (Indian blackberry) wine in summer. From October, the durzees (tailors) of Ripon Street and Madge Lane, the latter named after a well known Anglo-Indian family who owned the land on which stand the New Market and Globe Cinema, are busy cutting and stitching the latest fashions from Vogue magazine. Granny’s amra pickle and Aunty’s chutney are sunned. Finally the baker arrives to take away the cake-mix rich with fruit and spice to bake into a dozen or more portions for family and friends.




Frank Anthony’s mother sent him a dozen bottles of the Anglo-Indian special liquor and Milk Punch at Chrismas every year until she died. It was not unusual for a railway family to come to Calcutta for their Christmas shopping on the sales of their year’s collection of newspapers. They like so many others still make New Market their second home for the pre-Christmas weeks, buying presents, window shopping and munching on hot gram and Nizams kathi rolls which have followed the Anglo-Indian to Australia. Rosycheeked children, home from their boarding schools in the hills were happy sucking sticks of red and white barley sugar. Parties at home inevitably ended with a sing-song of old-time favourites round the piano-Roll Out the Barrel, When Irish Eyes are Smiling sounding lustier as the evening wore on.




Like their food and some of their ways, Anglo-Indian speech is a synthesis of English and Hindustani. In an accent and lilt entirely his own the young Anglo-Indian teases, Fatty Fatty Bomba Lati, ate up all the ghee chapatty, Inty Minty Papa Tinty, Tan Toon, Tessa, count Anglo-Indian children playing ring games. But the dialect as it may be called, was caught by Bobby Kokka in a 1960s Air India advertisement. She was a Dum dum blonde. To her Calcutta was Cal, Darjeeling was Darj and men to her were something that only came at the end of her sentences-until she went Idle wild.




And it was the Anglo-Indian girl who first volunteered for the job of air hostess. She led the way for the emancipated woman outside the home. In Calcutta they were the first among women to take up careers. As teachers they are the back-bone of the English medium schools in the city. Many a Calcuttan fondly cherishes and owes a debt to this great institution-from principal to Nursery Teacher. In nursing, it was the Anglo-Indian woman who lighted the lamp. Some are remembered as dedicated Matrons of public hospitals. In the world of entertainment, the beautiful sloe-eyed girl, product of a happy mixture of East and West, was top of the pops. Calcutta claims Merle Oberon as her own an Marie Wilson visited her city last year with a jazz group from Australia. The army of Patsys and Glorias kept the manually operated telephone lines in Calcutta alive and alert. The smart, efficient Anglo-Indian secretary was a most valuable asset in merchantile offices. Many, like Betty Catchick, Anne Lumsden and Jenny Paes carried this efficiency and dedication to work on to the playing field. Anne Lumsden was the only woman to win the Arjuna Award for her contribution o hockey. Jenny Paes, on the eve of her departure for Wimbledon to watch her son Leander, recalls her eventful career in basketball and her nine triumphant years as the ICI champion in the Office League matches. Her eldest daughter Jackie sometimes accompanied her and was the team mascot. Marie, her younger daughter followed in her mother’s footsteps and last year won the mot valuable player award in the Inter-Club tournament. She has taken up sports medicine like her father. Jenny Thompson nee Godfrey Writes from England, I often think about the interclub and interoffice matches played on the Chowringhee maidan. There was always such enthusiasm and excitement not only amongst the players but with all concerned, including the spectators. The experience and enjoyment I attained from these past years will never be forgotten. In his Oxford University Press office, the West Bengal MLA Neill O’Brien thinks back to 1967 on the Eddie Hyde Memorial Quiz, the first quiz competition in Calcutta. From small beginnings in a Parish Hall, quizzing has now become an All India pastime. The O’Brien boys are all three champion quizzers but father remains the Master Quizzer and Quiz Master. Mother, Joyce O’Brient at her desk at the All India Anglo-Indian Association, is a hot-line to help for many an SOS.




With Indian independence in 1947, the Anglo-Indian community felt insecure and there was a mass exodus of those who wished to leave. Those who remained were accepted as an Indian community. Not all agree that the job situation has improved, but there are many more opportunities. The Administrative and Defence Services hold Anglo-Indians in high positions.




Those who left Calcutta are fondly remembered, as is Johnny Mayer, the poor boy who half a century ago learnt to play the violin at the Calcutta School of Music from Philippe Sandre and played to dress-suited audiences at the Calcutta symphony orchestra concerts in the New Empire Theatre. A break at the Royal Academy of Music was the beginning of a very successful musical career.




From England and America, from Australia and Canada they come to visit the city of their birth. The younger generation come in search of their roots. Letters remain a link. Remembering happy times, Pat Beatty, Eva Deefholt and Patty Lord, erstwhile basketball players now in Australia write, we still value the many friends we made.




They have reconciled themselves to the changed times. A live for the day philosophy is evident in the octogenarian members of the community.




88 posted on 05/09/2005 6:57:46 PM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Gengis Khan
"You think of Gandhi as a Hitler worshipper? Wonder what you think of this guy. Subhash Chandra Bose.

I dont much care what you say about Gandhi but this guy is my hero............
..............so......... govern your responses accordingly :)

I think you opened up a can of worms.

Suffice to say, it appears that with all the mutual love between Hitler and Bose, it was, once again, a White man who used a "brown" man for his own purposes.

It is unfortunate, but facts are nasty things, eh wot?!

89 posted on 05/09/2005 7:18:51 PM PDT by Thumper1960 ("It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."-V.I.Lenin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Gengis Khan
So you are an apologist for those imperialists? Oh so you are! I dont think any Indian asked to be enslaved in return for...... "railroads, civil service, roads and other *critical* infrastructure" .

And the Harijans were treated so well before the British came and after the British left? Sorta calling the kettle black considering how India has treated it's own people especially the Dravidians?

90 posted on 05/09/2005 7:39:04 PM PDT by Trinity5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Trinity5

No, the Harijans (that is, "Untouchables") weren't treated particularly well before the British came. You will note that they weren't treated any better by the British either. Their status only began to (still a long way to go) because of Gandhi's efforts and later, independent India's Constitution making untouchability illegal.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "how India has treated its own Dravidians"? The Dravidians are the indigenous people of south India, and they do very well for themselves. Most of the prosperous, educated states in India are the Dravidian states: Karnataka (where Bangalore is), Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh.


91 posted on 05/09/2005 9:13:32 PM PDT by Culum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: CarrotAndStick

Korda's Queenie was really good. Rudyard Kipling was rumored to be part Indian as well.


92 posted on 05/09/2005 9:16:16 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: minus_273

What country are you originally from?


93 posted on 05/09/2005 9:18:23 PM PDT by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Trinity5

Oh, and I might add that discussing discrimination *before the British came* is a bit of a pointless discussion. In the 17th and 18th centuries, the world was a rather different place. The entire Western world was involved in slavery, there were no true democracies with universal suffrage, etc, etc.

Things change, people change, and societies change. We had a thrash about the status of lower castes in India a few weeks ago.let's not get back to it.


94 posted on 05/09/2005 9:19:03 PM PDT by Culum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Trinity5

Hey, dont bring the artificial aryan(north)- dravidian(south) divide... its a non-starter.


95 posted on 05/09/2005 9:26:54 PM PDT by desidude_in_us (You live and learn. Or you don't live long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: minus_273
thats why he was in league with hitler.

He wasnt in league with Hitler because he endorsed Nazism or fascism, only because he wanted to end British rule. You are unintentionally defiling the reputation of a noble and perhaps one of the greatest Indian "leader"s of 20th century.

He had his own agenda which was to break the backbone of socialists and communists (and you think thats a bad thing ??).

96 posted on 05/09/2005 9:33:33 PM PDT by desidude_in_us (You live and learn. Or you don't live long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: BullDog108
You are mistaken Gandhi was killed by RSS men and he was neither a member of that organization nor a supporter ya but he was left wing(read socialist) alright
97 posted on 05/09/2005 9:42:27 PM PDT by aidni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: minus_273
I didn't know that people who fought along Japanese army automatically became Nazi

Subhash Chandra Bose followed the same policy that US followed when it cuddled up to Saddam Hussain to contain Iran and later to Radical Muslim groups(Read Osama Bin Laden and Taliban). India's enemy at that tome was British and anyone who could overthrow them or should I say throw them out of India automatically became a frond.

Subash Chandra Bose did try to get Nazi support but Hitler was such a big fool that he thought India was better off under British therefore Bose had to join hand with Japan

Anyway wasn't it Churchill who said

If Hitler attacked hell he would make friendship with Devil so why can't the reverse apply to its dis-tractors
98 posted on 05/09/2005 9:51:31 PM PDT by aidni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: minus_273
Actually about two million Indian soldiers fought on the side of the allies forces under the British Indian Army many of them also won the Victorian Cross so official Indian Army was on Allied side but the Prisoners of war taken by Japan in the various battle on the eastern front were joine to prepare the so called Nazi Indian force
99 posted on 05/09/2005 9:56:56 PM PDT by aidni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Trinity5

"And the Harijans were treated so well before the British came and after the British left? Sorta calling the kettle black considering how India has treated it's own people especially the Dravidians?"

Hmmmm looks like you got your answers even before I could respond.

And what exactly are you saying about "Dravidians"? The "Dravidians" are a race in the south and have plenty of "higher casts" among them. I think the word you want to use is "Dalit" not "Dravidians".

Well firstly ...........under the British , Indians were treated like dogs and out of that the "Harijans" or "Dalits" were treated worst than dogs. Under independent India they have much more political power and add to that India has the worlds largest Affirmative Action program in the world. They are definitly treated way better than blacks in your country.


100 posted on 05/09/2005 9:57:00 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-116 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson