FAQ: How Real ID will affect you

CNET/News.com ^ | 6 May 2005 | Declan McCullagh

[af_vet_rr]

The hell of it is, if our government did its job on immigration, we could be a little more relaxed internally. Current policy is like leaving a wound open and unwashed while treating the patient with high-dose antibiotics.

Best summary of our stance towards border security I've ever heard :-)

[Loud Mime]

According to reports, the driver's information database was rescinded. The ACLU was all over that puppy, and I agree with them.

more at http://www.thotline.com

[Loud Mime]

Here is the other source that shows this information is inaccurate:

"But after a week of conference negotiations, Republicans from both chambers reached a compromise that leaves most of the bill intact. Among the notable changes, the House backed away from its demand that every state submit its driver information into a single national database that would be shared with Mexico and Canada."

Many groups fought that Database.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/05/05/congress_set_to_impose_id_card_rules/

[HiTech RedNeck]

Well at least the Senate is good for something.

[Loud Mime]

--Well at least the Senate is good for something.---

...and the ACLU...go figure!

[HiTech RedNeck]

Page 2 of 2 -- But Tim Sparapani of the ACLU said the language of the bill does not include restrictions on how the linked state databases can be used; theoretically, every driver's personal information may still be available for unlimited access.

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''They have created a national identification card and an interlinked set of databases whereby every driver's most sensitive personal information can be viewed by potentially thousands of employees and bureaucrats around the country," he said.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Methinks Congress needs to hear from us, especially the Senate which is twitchier.

[meatloaf]

Quite a few others besides youself are going to be thrilled when they realize the potential of that single piece of irrefutable ID. If you thought identity theft is a problem now, wait until those perfect ID's go into circulation.

Several things come to mind. In the past folks saved the carbons from credit cards and used that to scam some money. No need to do that now. Once the electronic data from your ID is "borrowed," you'll be so screwed it will be unbelievable. If the idiots at homeland insecurity force the states to embed RFIDs in the licenses, someone will eventually figure out how to scan the data as you walk by or trigger it to broadcast as you pass by. Think about walking around unknowingly disclosing your name, address, birthdate and SS# to someone who wants your data.

Years ago, the NJ state police stopped a car for a traffic infraction and noticed an electronic gizmo on the dash. It turned out the driver was scanning the ID codes from transmitting cellphones. He'd collected about 5,000 just driving around. Every time someone comes up with an unbeatable scheme, it's been beaten. The more you turn something into a supposedly perfect multifunction ID, the bigger the prize it becomes. Have no doubts that with something like that you'll have the best criminal minds in the world working to take advantage of it.

Less you think I'm paranoid, you only have to research SS employees selling data and another country counterfeiting our currency so perfectly it was undetectable by the Federal Reserve. Even experts when told the bills were fake had a difficult time confirming it.

If you've ever read how much time and effort it takes victims of identity theft to try and get their lives back, imagine the downside potential of that perfect ID. It goes without saying that a determined terrorist backed by millions of dollars will have no problem obtaining or creating one of those irrefutable ID's. Millions of other Americans will end up in the Twilight Zone if their data is stolen. If you doubt that, it doesn't take much effort to find out how little effort the government spends on identity theft. It's the opposite of the justice system where you're innocent until proven guilty. When your ID is stolen it's up to you to prove who you are and what you did or did not do.

[Loud Mime]

Here's the link from the Library of Congress site:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c109:./temp/~c109it9vbD

Everywhere the word "Database" turns up has been struck out.

The new legislation doesn't have it...they'll probably find another way.

[Fester Chugabrew]

. . . or are there hornless heads?

Headless horns. Definitely.

[AgThorn]

There is no credible evidence to suggest that "national" standards will be effective in preventing potential terrorists or illegal immigrants from obtaining state driver's licenses with forged ID documents, as is also the case concerning illegally obtained Social Security numbers and cards as well.

Being a resident in California and knowing full well that both the DMV applications as well as the Voter Registration require citizenship but (by law) do NOT request proof of citizenship when applying, I know that this national standard will help ... IF enforced.

I am glad that since you don't see the problem, you don't feel it either ... but for me this is a positive step in the right direction - regardless of what you conspiracy theorist want to call it. Call me a 'brownshirt' or a 'Democrat judge', that's fine with me .. that's the same tactic the 'obstructionists' (aka Democrats) have used for years ... But if by standardizing actually finally starts to enforce laws that have been ignored, and hence making this country safer, then throw all the mud you have.

[AgThorn]

more 'tinhat' fear stuff ....

I have been the victim of identity theft and it is quite difficult to clean up and legislation needs to be worked further on this topic. However, I have enough horse-sense to know that if my Identification had to be repeated in 50 different states that I may travel to, I would have a lot more problems with the theft of same. With 50 different standards of drivers licenses, there is a smorgishbord for the forgers to choose from. Fixing that problem is a great first step to cleaning up the fraud. Forcing standards on all states, especially those that have leaned seriously toward giving licenses to illegals (California, Tenn., Mass., Wisconsin, etc.) is a needed step in the right direction.

Does making one central drivers license make a 'bigger' price for forgers? Hardly. All they had to do today was forge the easiest state. If the standards are effective, hopefully they will be equal to the hardest state. And forging the new drivers license will offer no more benefit than the 'prize' they get from forging licenses today.

This 'scare the be-jesus' out of people with these falsehoods is just getting too far reaching guys ... let's realize we have a problem and lets fix it.

The national database is the object of your fears, and the focus should be on it. Not a standardization of license format, issue, and control.

[meatloaf]

Because of current 9/11 related requirements to get a driver's license, I was unable to get a new license before my old one expired simply because I couldn't get the certified documentation in time. A federally mandated document requirement to get a state license already exists.

Standardizing the licenses themselves will not eliminate the possibility of a terrorist gaming the system or using social engineering. Expecting fifty states to have identical systems/databases is going to create all sorts of problems. If illegals know where to go for a license, so will a terrorist, except now they have this supposedly super secure ID. You can't eliminate the possibility of corruption. That secure ID will lull folks that would otherwise be on the look out for anything bogus into accepting a new driver's license as proof that the individual has already been cleared and beyond suspicion. Unfortunately Congress likes quick solutions to problems. Combine that with the fact they've done little or nothing about identity theft and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some nasty surprises in the future. It comes down to money. All it takes is one clerk in a DMV making money by getting licenses for illegals and you have a potential 9/11 part II. The new ID will do nothing to prevent that. On the other hand it's going to seriously inconvenience millions of Americans.

[AgThorn]

That secure ID will lull folks that would otherwise be on the look out for anything bogus into accepting a new driver's license as proof that the individual has already been cleared and beyond suspicion.

We have conterfeiters today on our currency, and we deal with it .. but thank God we don't have 50 different currencies accross the 50 states or the problem would be much worse.

No one is 'lulled' into thinking that forgeries or conterfeiters will be eliminated all together, but by having one standard and hopefully a damn good one, we do eliminate the 'wide open' choice the bad guys now have to pick the easiest state to counterfeit.

[dennisw]

Sounds good to me. You libertarians always natter on how illegal immigration could be greatly eliminated if they weren't allowed welfare. This law supports it.

Though it will be a trip to see how a Donk President might abuse such a law.

[Old Dirty Bastiat]

LOL, last time I checked the government didn't throw people in the gulag for not using forks & spoons. Feel free to eat with fingers and chopsticks while it's still legal! ROFL, Not even the the commies are that bad.

Conspiracy theory? What conspiracy theory? A bill that has already passed the House is not a conspiracy. It's quite real.

I'm glad you at least oppose the database, so I think you are not really of the "brownshirt" persuasion. Apparently, you are just frustrated with your state's coddling of illegals. I believe taking away state sovereignty regarding driver's licenses and infringing citizens' right to travel is not the best way to deal with illegals. Many illegals drive without a license anyway. Doesn't it make more sense to stop rewarding illegals for breaking the law, than punishing citizens for obeying it. Why punish citizens of the other 49 states for the failing of your crummy state government. You need to get out of California and breathe the free air. It feels good.

By the way, in case you're not familiar with the history of National Socialism, the fascist state was erected piecemeal. They took away freedom in drips and drabs until they had enough power conentrated in few enough hands to do anything they wanted. We're nowhere close to a police state now, but why move in that direction? Freedom is better.

[meatloaf]

"We have counterfeiters today on our currency, and we deal with it." We have dealt with it. But it wasn't the Federal Reserve or the Secret Service that found the bogus $100 bills that lead to a complete redesign of our currency. Let me repeat that. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEVER DISCOVERED THE SUPER BILLS! They were perfect under visual inspection. The counterfeits were disclosed by an individual caught on drug charges.

The terrorists involved in 9/11 had legitimate driver's licenses. If there's a 9/11 part II, you can bet your ass the terrorists will again have a legitimate state driver's license no matter what the requirements. So why force the states to spend millions they don't have when the documentation requirements are already in place? You haven't convinced me that there's any benefit that justifies the costs. If anything there's a potential enormous cost to the states and their residents. Even more so, if some one figures out how to extract the data from the license unknown to the holder.

When one of the credit agencies or credit card issuers gets hacked, at least they can inform the victims. The folks who get their data hijacked while walking around won't have a clue until the damage is done.

[meatloaf]

In your spare time read the info on hacking RFIDs at the following link. Remember this is public data. Think of it as a starting point.

http://rfidanalysis.org/

Afterwards think about someone backed by millions who wants to actively scan for the info encoded into the so-called secure drivers' licenses. The real beneficiaries are the companies that have been trying to interest government agencies and WalMart into buying RFIDs. Not the average Joe.

[af_vet_rr]

Though it will be a trip to see how a Donk President might abuse such a law.

There won't be any "trip" about it.

[af_vet_rr]

. But if by standardizing actually finally starts to enforce laws that have been ignored, and hence making this country safer, then throw all the mud you have.

This isn't about making the country safer, hell they've wasted billions on screen devices and have concluded that they didn't do much good.

If this were truly about making the country safer from terrorists, they would first start with our physical security on the border.

If this was about illegal immigration, they could do a lot more, but that would upset certain groups in both society and the government, especially certain voting groups.

You call us "conspiracy theorists", but think about these two things:

1)"In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases".

2)This was attached to an emergency military spending bill.

If this is such a brilliant and wonderful idea, the RealID Act should be able to stand on its own merits, and it shouldn't be hidden behind military spending bills and states wouldn't have to be coerced into going along with it. They should have no problem even putting it to the voters and letting them decide.