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Secretive Buyer of Some E-Commerce Patents Turns Out to Be Novell ~~ Patent laws needs major fixing
The New York Times ^ | May 2, 2005 | JOHN MARKOFF

Posted on 05/02/2005 1:34:44 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

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1 posted on 05/02/2005 1:34:45 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: ShadowAce

More fallout from the SCO - IBM lawsuit.


2 posted on 05/02/2005 1:36:07 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (This tagline no longer operative....floated away in the flood of 2005 ,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

No one I know in the software industry would describe Novell as follows: "the giant software and computer services company."

Novell is not a major force in the industry. Commerce One is basically dead. Lots of issues in patent law, not just software but also in biotech, industrial manufacturing. Not much need for patent reform that I see. All domains of the law are subject to abuse and they tend to work themselves out. I hate lawyers, but this is not an area of major concern.


3 posted on 05/02/2005 1:40:54 PM PDT by usafsk ((Know what you're talking about before you dance the QWERTY waltz))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Intellectual property laws were originally intended to reward risk-taking entrepreneurs for the development of innovative technologies.

Their purpose has transmogrified into being a mere vehicle for lawyers to erect royalty toll booths for derivative, non-innovative "business methods."

4 posted on 05/02/2005 1:47:07 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism. DEA agents will not keep your children safe from drugs.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
said the company had acquired the patents for defensive reasons and did not plan to seek licensing revenue from them.

Yeh, similar as the patents on GIF and JPEG graphics -- years after they had been in common use, the patent holders then tried to start charge for their use (with back charges for their previous use).
5 posted on 05/02/2005 1:47:11 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: usafsk
Not much need for patent reform that I see.

When some companies can patent the "One Click Purchase", and other companies exist that sell no products--they make money from patent lawsuits, I'd say that our patent system is broken. It is a well known fact that most patents applied for are granted without research by the patent office since they are massively understaffed. It is also well known that patents are being granted for every trivial change to a product. Not too long ago a patent was granted for the wheel (using clever language). The US patent system is completely broken (it was never intended for intellectual properties or to be used to describe trivial aspects of products). Unless our patent system is revised, the number of lawyers each company will have to employ to stay legal will increase until our industries are paralyzed.

6 posted on 05/02/2005 1:49:46 PM PDT by burzum
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To: ShadowAce

bump


7 posted on 05/02/2005 1:54:05 PM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered. ©)
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To: burzum

Most patents applied for are not granted as applied for, but with significant changes and restrictions. So much for that well known fact. For the most recent year that statistics are available, there were about 350,000 applications and only around 180,000 patents issued. Note that the 180,000 issued is of the entire body of applications, not just those received in 2003. So really about 10% of applications result in an actual patent and most of those are narrowed during the process.

If the patent system was not created to protect intellectual property then why does it exist. If you object to process patents, then let the court work them out. Few have been issued and fewer defended with success. Patents are critical to many industries, especially pharma, bio-ag, microchips, chemical, and others.


8 posted on 05/02/2005 2:03:05 PM PDT by usafsk ((Know what you're talking about before you dance the QWERTY waltz))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Yes...the patent system is a mess..and needs some serious reform. This is an issue that has been addressed by the IEEE and is developing into a major impediment to increasing productivity and the state of the art knowledge for US companies.

Heres a flip side of the mess....IMHO many patents that are awarded...particularly in the areas of electronics circuitry design are bogus...they are neither innovative nor proprietary...just specialized adaptations of existing prior art.

I consulted for a client on a patent case...where I determined that the patent was totally bogus...and basically consisted of a repackaging of a concept devised about 80 years earlier....and in common use for a host of applications.

The patent application for this 'device' had been initially denied...then mysteriously...after some high level petitions of the then Clinton era patent office administration...was suddenly granted.

The so called 'inventor' then used the bogus patent to attempt to solicit lots of private investor funding for a now defunct startup. I had been hired by one of the private investors.

To cap off the mess...we also have the situation whereby legitimate patents are being stolen by unscrupulous companies abroad...chiefly in China / Asia.

Its gotten to the point that small to mid-size business should seriously question filing for a patent on a truly new application or technique...unless they have a big cash bucket to use for legal defense purposes. Licensing may be the best option for a small start up...especially if you need to mass produce the patented device to make it feasible.
9 posted on 05/02/2005 2:14:47 PM PDT by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Blast, foiled again!


10 posted on 05/02/2005 2:19:11 PM PDT by Waterleak (I pity the fool)
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To: burzum

Check your Constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause *, grants Congress the authority "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries". Do you see anything in there that says "except for business methods, trivial aspects of products, or anything else that pisses off burzum"? Nope, I didn't see that, either.

The Patent Office has never, and will never, grant a patent "without research". They still examine every application with great care and professionalism. They certainly have some catching up to do in the software area, and sometimes invalid patents are issued. That's what courts are for. The U.S. patent system is partly responsible for almost every major technological advance in the last 100 years. Trashing it would be the height of stupidity.


11 posted on 05/02/2005 2:20:31 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: Dat Mon

Thanks for the info!


12 posted on 05/02/2005 2:21:18 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (This tagline no longer operative....floated away in the flood of 2005 ,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Added to Keyword "Intellectual Property"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=intellectualproperty


13 posted on 05/02/2005 2:25:44 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: Dat Mon

No patent is ever issued "mysteriously". Every piece of correspondence is in the file history, including interviews, conferences, etc. It would only be mysterious if you couldn't read English. If a patent is issued, and there is invalidating prior art out there, anyone is free to file a petition for re-examination of the application without ever seeing the inside of a courtroom.

There is also no way that a "legitimate" patent can be "stolen" by anyone. Patents are strictly creatures of national sovreignty: a U.S. patent does nothing to prevent a Chinese company fromn producing and selling in China, just as a Chinese patent is worthless in the U.S.

If you're advising your clients to stop filing patent applications, you're inviting them to give away their R&D expenditures. Doesn't sound very prudent to me.


14 posted on 05/02/2005 2:29:08 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
Sometimes collusion or a gentleman's agreement comes into play.

One of my Church members was in an investment group whose own R&D procured the patent for boil in the bag rice. This was back in the 70's or so.

They heavily marketed to all the major US food processors but none would buy into it.

After the patent expired, boil in the bag rice came out under many labels.

15 posted on 05/02/2005 2:50:26 PM PDT by Deguello
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
I never said there wasn't a paper trail. The inconsistencies in the paper trail were in fact mysterious...even to people such as myself and to my client at the time...we both understand English.

The bogus patent is out there...obviously I am not going to provide details. I did my analysis and report years after the patent had been issued. The investors wanted to know why the bogus patent had never been developed into a working device...it couldn't have been....actually the circuitry was not designed correctly...another small detail.

As far as China stealing patents and intellectual property...hell its already been done...particularly when a device is mass marketed in China / Asia. I don't understand when you say there is no why a legitimate patent can be stolen...is it because we have laws that protect us from theft? Do Chinese companies commonly produce products strictly for the China market...or also for the larger lucrative American market as well.

I never said I advised anyone not to file a patent...I said licensing may be the best option if you don't have the means to defend your patent....in otherwords consider if its wise to disclose proprietary techniques to a potential competitor in another country who may not respect our American laws.
16 posted on 05/02/2005 2:50:38 PM PDT by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel

Let me add one note...Im not indicting patent attorneys..I think we need MORE good patent attorneys...especially at the patent office.

We also need alot more budget to hire some good patent examiners...the staff is woefully undermanned IMO.

Thats where Im going with this point...not to abolish the patent office for Gods sake.


17 posted on 05/02/2005 3:04:41 PM PDT by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Dat Mon

Sorry about the crabby tone. You know, I really need to cut down on the caffeine...

My point about "stealing" patents was that a U.S. patent was never supposed to protect you outside the U.S. If you want to be protected in China, you better file in China. That's not a U.S. patent system problem, it's a business decision problem.

If the "bogus" patent you describe is still out there, it will never be enforced given the prior art you describe. Examiners, even careful examiners, sometimes make mistakes. From what you say, that one would be gone on summary judgment in short order.


18 posted on 05/02/2005 3:25:02 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: usafsk

I thought AOL bought Netscape years back. If so, they are still one of the big boys.


19 posted on 05/02/2005 3:44:16 PM PDT by Diplomat
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To: usafsk

Of course right after I post I realize I'm an idiot and cannot read.

Novell is a tiny bit player in the industry at this point. Only decaying systems still use Novell. Not sure how these guys can keep a straight face by pretending this has nothing to do with future litigation.


20 posted on 05/02/2005 3:47:23 PM PDT by Diplomat
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