Posted on 05/01/2005 7:30:06 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
Gun advocates want more freedom to pack
Sunday, May 01, 2005
By Kyla King
The Grand Rapids Press
Like many others, Peg Baumann was quick to seek a permit to carry a hidden handgun when Michigan legislators made it easier.
She jumped through all the "hoops" -- taking classes, giving fingerprints and submitting to a background check.
But nearly four years later, the suburban mom says she still does not always feel safe because state law bars it in many places, such as the school where she drops off her 10-year-old son.
"I proved I'm an upstanding citizen, but I can't carry it. I have to leave it in the car," said Baumann, 49, who lives in Kentwood. "What if the bad guy gets you between coming in and out?"
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Alan Cropsey said Baumann's not alone. That's why he's holding a hearing May 13 in Caledonia to listen to their concerns. The hearing is just one of four stops Cropsey is making around the state as he considers introducing legislation.
In addition to lifting the ban on carrying in public places, gun advocates are pushing to move the permit process from counties to the Secretary of State's office and allow renewal with out turning in new fingerprints.
The law making it easier to get a permit took effect in July 2001 and requires gun board's in the state's 83 counties to issue a concealed weapons permit (CCW) if applicants are at least 21, have not been convicted of a felony or certain misdemeanors, and have no history of mental illness. Since it took effect, 111,620 people in the state have obtained the right to carry a hidden handgun.
Cropsey notes the main goal of opening up the process beyond those who demonstrate a clear need for a permit has been accomplished.
But Cropsey -- whose senate district includes Ionia and part of Montcalm counties -- favors letting property owners decide whether handguns should be allowed on their premises.
"We have had complaints from people who say because of the neighborhood I live in, I need to carry when I drop my child off and pick them up from day care," said Cropsey, referring to the portion of the law that prohibits concealed weapons at day-care centers. "Why don't you let the day-care operator make that decision?"
Under current law, those with a permit face fines and permit suspension or revocation if they bring their concealed pistols to designated public areas including schools, day-care centers, churches, hospitals, casinos, colleges, sports arenas and stadiums, and bars where liquor sales are the primary source of income.
That's as it should be, says Joan Lange.
"I personally would not want them to come into the center with a handgun -- you're putting everybody at risk," said Lange, director of Belknap Child Development Center in Grand Rapids.
Lange said most day-care centers have procedures in place to ensure safety. At Belknap, there are cameras in the parking lot and the inner doors are locked at all times so no one gets in without permission from staff, she said.
A spokesman for Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, the region's largest hospital network declined comment on the proposal except to say the safety of patients, visitors, and staff is Spectrum's number one concern.
"We hope discussions include the consequences of any changes," Bruce Rossman said.
Lee Zeidler is more concerned about the consequences of not making changes.
Zeidler, 44, a Wyoming instructor for the National Rifle Association, said criminals know where people can't carry their guns.
"The hospital doesn't provide me protection," Zeidler said.
Ionia resident Sandra Brown, 50, said, as a single mother with a CCW permit, she should be able to carry her .38-caliber pistol anywhere. Especially because she has had prank calls and a "peeping Tom" at her home.
"It's just good to feel I have a choice if something should happen so I wouldn't necessarily be vulnerable," Brown said.
Wyoming resident Larry Bellgraph says lifting carry restrictions on public places is just one tweak of the current law that's needed.
Bellgraph, 54, said he wants the application process moved to a central location like the Secretary of State's office.
The current law gives the authority to gun boards in all 83 counties.
"There's a lot of (counties) that behave themselves and follow the law," said Bellgraph, a member of the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners. "Then there's a lot of them, as Kent County does, that make up their own county intricacies."
"They seem to think they don't have to follow the law."
Bellgraph's group filed suit against Kent County in 2003 because of the gun board's requirement that applicants get a doctor to sign a form verifying their mental health.
"The law states very clearly the sheriff must verify the mental status of each and every applicant," said Kent County Clerk Mary Hollinrake, a member of the gun board. "What we're doing is trying to comply with that and no other county is coming anywhere near close to that."
Hollinrake -- who sits on the Michigan Association of County Clerks CCW subcommittee -- said clerks around the state believe the permit process should remain in local hands.
"One size doesn't fit all," she said. "The local people who sit on the gun board know more about the people applying than the Secretary of State's office."
Hollinrake said she also opposes efforts to allow people to renew permits without turning in new fingerprints.
"That is absolutely absurd," she said. "Fingerprints are the only way to check a criminal record."
Gun advocates like Wyoming's Bellgraph argue that the $105 cost is too much to pay again.
But Hollinrake said it is illegal to keep fingerprints given for the original weapon permit on file -- meaning there would be no way to check is someone had committed a crime since obtaining the original permit.
In her opinion, all the talk of changing the law is unsettling.
"I never predicted blood in the streets," said Hollinrake, who opposed the 2001 law change. "It was just the idea of more guns in the hands of more people may lead to injury and why would we want that?"
What a stoooopid statement.
Nam Vet
Just like there is a free state project.
Perhaps some leftists should try and create a safty nazi city with no property or individual rights. Someplace where waiving all constitutional rights is a prerequisite for residence.
Lets see how many want to live there.
"Gun free zones" = unarmed victim zones
"What if the bad guy gets you between coming in and out?"
Such as at Columbine, where the bad guys went INTO the school and the wussy SWAT team hid behind their patrol cars and refused to enter the school until the shooting stopped?
Ideas don't kill people - people kill people.
I agree. Since I moved from NY to NC, I'm stocking up on handguns and other assorted goodies. Including cases of ammo. No, I'm not a nut-case skin-head; however, I see our basic liberties being confiscated from us. My approach is to protect my family. And we live in a wealthy neighborhood on Lake James. Regardless, I want the resources to protect my family. I've been through all the FBI/CCW steps. Every weapon in our home is legal, as is the ammunition. So... That's it.
BANG if an intruder threatens my family. Plain and simple.
Idaho CCW permit holders can drop kids off at school, but they must keep the firearm inside the vehicle. You can't step onto a K-12 school ground with a firearm unless you have written permission to bring it for an authorized activity. Law enforcement and some others have an exception.
And that's no joke.
More cars in the hands of more people may lead to injury so I guess we better stop issuing driver's licenses too. Somebody ought to give this genius John Lott's book.
That fake disinformational fear has been proven wrong in every state that allows CHL/CCW permits.........and Alaska and Vermont........yet
These POS beancounters renting Americans their RKBA's back to them are trash, socialist , worthless trash. Doom on these polidiots and their handlers. Gun control keeps guns in the "wrong" hands..........
Vote & Tote Ya'll !
I'm with you on this point! I'd like to see stats on accidental deaths via firearms versus those via automobiles!
BTW, I just got my new Sig Sauer P226 and expect to check her out this coming Wednesday!
Ahhhh... the smell of gunpowder and Hoppe's Number 9 cannot be beat.
That's a nice weapon. Congratulations!
I just don't understan what people don't get about:
"The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
Very simple wording and meaning...
Thanks
I bought a Sig P232 .380 as a CCW and love the action. Then, as an a home self defence weapon (I have Ruger .357 wheel guns) but I wanted a semi with a Picatinny rail to accomodate a xenon light and laser combination in order to focus on a perp in the dim night-time. This is why I chose the Sig P226.
I looked at a Glock 19 and a Kimber, but felt that I like the Sigs... Reliability, reputation, and grip.
Was this a good decision?
Such as at Columbine, where the bad guys went INTO the school and the wussy SWAT team hid behind their patrol cars and refused to enter the school until the shooting stopped?
YOU THERE, IN THE BUILDING, COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP. NOBODY HAS TO GET THEIR PICTURE TAKEN HERE.
Guess the cops at Columbine didn't have sufficient camera coverage for a dynamic entry, huh?
Probably. Just watch the videos of that day. It was pretty sick to her on the news that there is still shooting going on and the cops are hiding behind firetrucks and cop cars.
Only you can say. As you know, it usually takes time to settle in with a new weapon. Worst case scenario, which is unlikely, is that 6 months from now, you won't like the 226. The good news is that even if that happens, this is a gun that holds its value.
My best guess is that you made a great choice!
Absolutely!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.