The War We Could Have Won [Truth on 'Nam published in NY Times!]

The New York Times ^ | May 1, 2005 | By STEPHEN J. MORRIS

[Morgan in Denver]

Agreed, as should many in the press corps, and the MSM today.

[yarddog]

I remember all too well the aftermath of JFK. Incredibly, the fact that the assassin was a Communist supporter of Castro seemed to be of no import.

It was blamed on conservatives, White Southerners, and gun nuts. Oddly enough, it still is to some degree.

Actually, Lee Harvey Oswald technically was a White Southerner but with a world view exactly the opposite of most.

[jslade]

I was a radar navigator on B-52s during the late 60's-early 70's. We could have won the war in two week or so. By bombing the dike systems on the Red River during monsoon season, North Vietnam would have been under water. Game over!

[armymarinemom]

Ping

[traviskicks]

From:
http://www.neoperspectives.com/kerryvietnam.htm

Prior to 1975 the North Vietnamese Communists had already killed between 50,000-100,000 of their own citizens in purges, terrors and 'land reforms'. (3) Upon reuniting their country, the North Vietnamese killed or sent to labor camps hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese citizens. Millions of refugees have since fled Vietnam. Known as 'the boat people', they sought refuge wherever they could. At least 100,000 people drowned fleeing the Communists. Others were attacked by pirates, or were repatriated to the hellish labor camps of Vietnam. Today, over 1.2 million South Vietnamese refugees live in the United States. Yet Kerry seemed to believe the primary threat to the Vietnamese people was that posed by the armed forces of the United States.

In December 1975, just months after Saigon fell, the government of neighboring Laos fell to a Vietnamese backed Communist force. Hundreds of thousands were killed in war, famine and political assassination (3). The Hmong tribespeople, loyal American allies before the pullout, were decimated, an estimated ten per cent of them were killed by Communist forces. (6)

On April 17th, 1975 the Khmer Rouge, a Communist guerrilla group led by Pol Pot, overthrew the US backed government (weakened by the US withdrawal) with the help of the North Vietnamese government and China. They forced all city dwellers into the countryside and to labor camps. During their rule, it is estimated that 2 million Cambodians died by starvation, torture or execution. 2 million Cambodians represented approximately 30% of the Cambodian population during that time. (7)

In sum, the American withdrawal left over 3 million dead and caused millions more to flee their homes. Today South East Asia is still impoverished and undemocratic. Growing up, we are taught that the 'domino effect' was a foolish, flawed theory. In reality, it was a perfect predictor of what came to pass. South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia fell to the Communists within a year. Burma battled Communists insurgencies, even while embarking on an even harsher form of socialism that starved it's population. Communist insurgencies, although not ultimately successful, increased in intensity in Thailand. It's possible that Communism could have spread even further and the insurgencies been more successful if the newly formed Communist nations hadn't turned on each other in another orgy of violence.

As these events unfolded, America suffered a terrible weakening of our national pride and our moral leadership in the world was shaken. We were not defeated on the battlefield, we were defeated by weak national leadership and by public opinion here at home.




From http://www.neoperspectives.com/kerryconclusion.htm

Communism is the greatest evil that man has ever known. It is responsible for more than 100 millions deaths (more than all the wars in history combined), millions and millions of refugees and the subjugation and slavery of over 2 billion people since WWII. Communist regimes always follow a similar pattern. A Communist regime has never been elected, so first Communists must orchestrate a revolution, often with the support of funding from preexisting Communist regime. Next, Communists dissolve private property, nationalize media and begin a brutal purge of political prisoners and the upper classes. To conduct it's class warfare and maintain control of the revolting people, the state will militarize, establish a large secret police presence, and create horrific labor/reeducation camps. The economy collapses, failed farm policies result in starvation, refugees flee, and the government begins to export Communist revolution abroad. How far the government is willing to push the Communist philosophy will directly equate with the severity of these events and the suffering of their people. This exact pattern has come to pass in the Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, North Korea, Angola, Eastern Europe, Yugoslavia, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Cuba. A few countries on this list have not experienced the true hell of Communism because the governments either didn't last long enough to take full root, or total Communist policies were not pursued in earnest. (67)

[TX Bluebonnet]

read later

[shrinkermd]

"The Congressional Dems cutoff of financial aid to our allies was disgraceful and unforgivable.

Yes, Yes and Yes. What was even worse they had to make the sacrifice of so many of my friends meaningless and continue to do so. Traitors through and through.

[Morgan in Denver]

Yep, I did. I've been around that long but don't let it out. Heck, I even wore an "I Like Ike" button once upon a time.

[Rembrandt_fan]

Oh, now the NYT figures it out. Decades after the fact, of course. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

[AZHua87]

ping

[Tacis]

Why would ANYONE believe that, after 30 years of doing exactly the opposite, the NYT would start printing the truth about Viet Nam?

[hosepipe]

And Jane Fonda and and John Scary are still allowed to run amuck, as if, they were not foreign agents, then AND NOW..

[Da Mav]

The war in Vietnam was not a victory for the communists as many seem to claim these days. While it is true that South Vietnam was invaded and conquered, the main rationale for the war was to prevent the spread of communism in Southeast Asia, including Indonesia, the Phillipines and ultimately Japan. That did not happen, in large measure because of the price that we forced the communists to pay for Vietnam.

The role of the "antiwar" left in America was the prolongation of the war. After the Tet offensive the VC was smashed and the North had to decide whether to take over the offensive. Their decision was based primarily on the hope for victory that the "antiwar" movement in America gave them. General Giap says as much in his book.

The left was responsible for the bloodiest years of the war, for the American withdrawal, the American "no win" policy, and ultimately the starvation of South Vietnam's military. They got their victory in country. But looking at the larger picture, communism did not spread to region. American lives lost in Vietnam stopped the dominoes from falling. For that the free world owes our Vietnam vets a great debt.

The challenge at the present is Iraq. Once again, in the name of "peace", the left is howling for an American defeat. If we are forced out of Iraq before a blocking regime is set up the Middle East the dominoes will fall. Islamofascism is the new ideology which threatens the world. Just as our parents and grandparents defeated Nazi fascism and Communist oppression, we must defeat Islamofascism or our children will pay a price.

I'd say its time for some national parades and ceremonies thanking those who are making the sacrifice for future generations.

[Verginius Rufus]

The "killing fields" were in Cambodia, where the Khmer Rouge killed between one and two million people during their few years in power. I was asking about the death toll in South Vietnam following the Communist victory on 4/30/1975.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

If Nixon hadn't caved into the minority anti-war crowd
and listened to the Silent Majority
Hanoi Jane AND Hanoi Kerry
would have been prosecuted for their treason in the 70's,
while Nixon was still President.

Keep in mind that Nixon was directly involved in Viet Nam,
as Vice President, going back to at least 1955.


26 Sep 1945 - The first death of an American serviceman in Vietnam occurred.
OSS (Office of Special Operations) Major (Lieutenant Colonel) A. Peter Dewey
was killed in action by the Communist Vietminh near Hanoi.
May 1950 President Harry S Truman authorised $10 million in aid to the French for their war in Viet Nam.
By January 1951, $150 million had been given in aid.
1953-61 Dwight D. Eisenhower 34th US President
1953-61 Richard M. Nixon Vice President
1953 - The US is supporting the French in the amount of $1 billion per year--
33% of all US foreign aid--which is 80% of the total cost to the
. US Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles (under Eisenhower) first voices the 'Domino Theory':
if one country in Southeast Asia falls to the Communists, they will all fall, one by one.

12 Feb 55 - President Eisenhower's administration sends 1st 350 U.S. advisers to South Vietnam
to train the South Vietnamese Army

8 Jun 56 - The first American of record to die in Vietnam
was Air Force Tech Sergeant Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr.
His son, Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, died in Vietnam Sep 7, 1965.
8 Jun 56 Has been formally recognized by the Pentagon as the first American officially to die in that war.

5 Sep 56 - President Eisenhower tells a news conference that the French are
"involved in a hopelessly losing war in Indochina" 1956 The US believed in that Ho Chi Minh would have won any election held in Viet Nam and used their influence over the government of the State of Viet Nam to ensure that the election was not held



From a Must Visit Site
Vipers Vietnam Veterans Page, A Vietnam Veteran & Proud Web Site
About Vietnam

The Vietnam war was the longest in our nation's history.
1st American advisor was killed on June 08, 1956,
and the last casualties in connection with the war occurred on May 15, 1975, during the Mayaquez incident. Approximately 2.7 million Americans served in the war zone; 300,000 were wounded and approximately 75,000 permanently disabled. Officially there are still 1,991 Americans unaccounted for from SE Asia.

Vietnam was a savage, in your face war where death could and did strike from anywhere with absolutely no warning. The brave young men and women who fought that war paid an awful price of blood, pain and suffering. As it is said: "ALL GAVE SOME ... SOME GAVE ALL"
The Vietnam war was not lost on the battlefield. No American force in ANY other conflict fought with more determination or sheer courage than the Vietnam Veteran.  For the first time in our history America sent it's young men and women into a war run by inept politicians who had no grasp of military strategies and no moral will to win. They were led by "top brass" who were concerned mainly with furthering their own careers, most neither understood the nature of the war nor had a clue about the impossible mission with which they'd tasked their soldiers.  And the war was reported by a self serving Media who penned stories filled with inaccuracies, deliberate omissions, biased presentations and blatant distorted interpretations because they were more interested in a story than the truth! It can be debated that we should never have fought that war. It can also be argued that the young Americans who fought so courageously, never losing a single major battle, helped in a huge way to WIN THE COLD WAR.

[Stretch]

Stretch: The old Geezer here again.... Remember, folks, it was John F. Kennedy, and his CIA who plotted to kill the leader DIEM, and succeeded, that started the war in Viet Nam. After Johnson was defeated, they worked to bring down Nixon, and placed a lot of the blame for the war on him. Remember, also,....That Hillary was on the impreachment committee and was the main demagog of Nixon that caused him to resign by placing illegal restrictions to keep him from defending himself in the impeachment hearings..... HITLERY WAS VILE THEN AND IS TO THIS DAY.... ONLY SO MUCH WORSE. THE EVIL ONE GREW FROM HER DAYS WHEN SHE DEFENDED THE "BLACK pANTHERS"... EVIL, EVIL, EVIL!!!

[risk]

Thanks, Tonk.

[Stretch]

Stretch: The old Geezer here again.... Remember, folks, it was John F. Kennedy, and his CIA who plotted to kill the leader DIEM, and succeeded, that started the war in Viet Nam. After Johnson was defeated, they worked to bring down Nixon, and placed a lot of the blame for the war on him. Remember, also,....That Hillary was on the impreachment committee and was the main demagog of Nixon that caused him to resign by placing illegal restrictions to keep him from defending himself in the impeachment hearings..... HITLERY WAS VILE THEN AND IS TO THIS DAY.... ONLY SO MUCH WORSE. THE EVIL ONE GREW FROM HER DAYS WHEN SHE DEFENDED THE "BLACK pANTHERS"... EVIL, EVIL, EVIL!!!