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To: jazzlite

You're right, fraud is punishable. What fraud did she commit?

In a nutshell, to commit fraud, she would have had to make some representation. That representation would have had to be material; the person(s) she made the representation of the fraud to would have had to believed it and relied on it and been injured by it.

All right, let's think about her statement she was abducted. Now, this comes after the search and all the money is spent, and was obviously not relied on by anyone being arrested. (There were probably costs incurred in the investigation of three or four hours.)

But, so far as her leaving, that's not a fraud. As an adult, she has freedom of movement. She (or you or I or anyone over eighteen who's not legally incompetent) can walk away tomorrow.

Was it cruel? Yes. Inconsiderate? Yes. Criminal? No. We don't criminalize being inconsiderate, which is probably a good thing because the jails would be swamped.

In addition, take the argument she should be charged for leaving one step further. Imagine we start charging people who leave. What happens to the woman in an abusive relationship? We spent time looking for her when she vanished (possibly because of her safety), she should have left a note?

There was no indication from anyone who knew her that there was anything wrong. I would guess (and this is just a guess) she was confused about whether she wanted to get married and felt unable to stop the wedding. We may all see that it would have been so easy, but she did not. The stress of keeping these feelings submerged without talking to anyone about it must have finally gotten to her. I don't condone what she did, but I don't think it was criminal.


207 posted on 04/30/2005 7:30:02 AM PDT by pleasedontzotme
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To: pleasedontzotme; jazzlite
It occurred to me after I wrote this comment

I would guess (and this is just a guess) she was confused about whether she wanted to get married and felt unable to stop the wedding. We may all see that it would have been so easy, but she did not. The stress of keeping these feelings submerged without talking to anyone about it must have finally gotten to her.

that I could elaborate slightly.

I happen to know two women younger than her but both out of college. To read about them on paper or speak with them, they appear to be successful, bright, intelligent and completely together. They're both right at the tops of their class. They both seem just like anyone you would want to have as your coworker/daughter/wife. (This happens in men, too, btw, and I think more frequently, but the two I know are women.) One of them is an acquaintance/friend, another is a somewhat-close friend of mine.

Here's the thing: They are book-smart and emotion stupid. In fact, I don't think they can deal with their emotions, failure, or anything that deviates in any way from what they think is mapped out for them. Control is key to them, and so long as they control their environments and their standards, they are fine.

But when they can't.....watch out!!!! If you get in their way or don't hew the line, they are going to come at you with a vengeance. If there's a problem, it's clearly because you are not as smart, hardworking or ethical as them, and you risk eclipse from their universe.

But, I have discovered (with the one I am somewhat close with, as much as they will indicate they wish to get rid of you and that you are a bother to them), they do not actually wish to get rid of you. They need you there to witness and validate their accomplishments. If they can show how much better they are than you in a field of your particular expertise, all the better. To accomplish this, they will step right over what they have said without so much as a thought and say something directly inconsistent.

I believe both of these two people are headed for a major crash down the road. They will at some point be in a situation where they may not be the smartest or brightest, they will not be in control, they will be bested by someone they don't consider as good or as hardworking as them. I truly fear for their safety when that happens.

The pressure we, and others, put on ourselves can have terrible peril, and lead to great narcissisim.
216 posted on 04/30/2005 7:45:00 AM PDT by pleasedontzotme
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To: pleasedontzotme

I don't know about fraud, but she called 911 and said she was kidnapped. She lied to police when she was picked up and after several hours of interrogation, she confessed. That is a crime and she should be charged.


223 posted on 04/30/2005 8:11:15 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: pleasedontzotme
Yours is the level-headed approach on this, after one gets over the shock. I agree. I just could not understand, from the beginning, why such a national media focus on this girl. It was as if the media was almost gleeful that maybe another Lacey Peterson story was developing. I was sick about their questions and focus. No one gave such a focus to that Asst. D.A. in Pennsylvania, and he is still missing.

When it is a child/minor it is different, and I am all for doing whatever necessary to keep that news in front of the public.

But sometimes, with adults, people just want to be missing. I think such disappearances need to be kept out of the national news focus. We have seen many times that adults plan their own "missing person" stories. I feel very sorry for her family and the anguish they have suffered for the past four days. I imagine if my adult daughter would turn up missing, I know I would want all the help and attention to find her. But that is a two-edged sword. Once the world is invited into your personal life, you loose control. Now, in addition to what was their fright, turned to relief, they have the additional burden of national embarassment.

I don't think this girl was "sick" in a major mental sense. Apparently she has great skill in planning: first a huge wedding, then a "get away," with no trail, and obviously enough awareness to cut her hair, have enough cash, etc. Quite an accomplishment, in essence.

But, this all shows something very reveling. With this girl it was all about "her." Her wishes, her wedding, her happiness, and her fears. It seems there is little consideration in her life - true consideration,not surface "goodie-goodie" type - for others. When you truly have concern about others, you don't put your own fears first. You talk, you explain, and you consider options. You do not make people suffer because of your problems and insecurities. Sure, she had pressures about the big wedding. In the scope of problems faced in this world, is that an excuse for what she did? Poor child, the world was revolving around her and she could not cope? What would she have done with a real tragedy in her life? The type that she caused her family.

However, the bottom line is: You just do not lie. Obviousily the basis of all of this is a lie - her feelings were not true, her heart was not in this marriage. No one who loves deeply can hurt others in this way. I don't think it was/is sickness, just an inability to be truthful. That is the root of all evil or selfish actions, IMHO

225 posted on 04/30/2005 8:15:02 AM PDT by CitizenM ("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
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To: pleasedontzotme

" Criminal? No. We don't criminalize being inconsiderate, which is probably a good thing because the jails would be swamped ."

Last year , a college student from Wisconsin faked her own disappearance and faced criminal charges.

Fox News April 14,2004 :

MADISON, Wis. — A college student accused of faking her own kidnapping last month was charged Wednesday with lying to police in what they suggested was a desperate attempt to get her boyfriend's attention.

Audrey Seiler , a 20-year-old sophomore at the University of Wisconsin , was charged with two misdemeanor counts of obstructing officers. Each charge carries up to nine months in jail and a $10,000 fine.

Seiler disappeared from her off-campus apartment March 27 without her coat or purse. She was discovered curled in a fetal position in a marsh four days later, and told police that a man had abducted her at knifepoint.

But police concluded Seiler made up the story after obtaining a store videotape that showed her buying the knife, duct tape, rope and cold medicine she claimed her abductor used to restrain her. Seiler confessed after she was confronted with the tape, according to authorities.

"I set up everything. I'm just so messed up. I'm sorry," they quoted her as saying. But she later recanted the statement, insisting she had been abducted.

Hundreds of people from Madison and Seiler's hometown searched for her after she disappeared, and her claim about an armed man touched off a major manhunt that authorities said cost the police about $96,000.

Her first court appearance was scheduled for Thursday, but her attorney was expected to appear in her place.


259 posted on 04/30/2005 12:19:46 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: pleasedontzotme

What she did was criminal mischief. That's not all she should be charged with, but it certainly is that. Think what would happen if a 32-year-old woman had an impulse to pull a fire alarm, for the thrill of it, for attention, for some unconscious cry for help or whatever other bolshoi passes for excuse these days. Don't you think people who call in false alarms should be prosecuted?
This is no child. The woman had to know what would happen if she vanished while jogging, a few days before her wedding.

She should have her head examined --- and then face charges.


265 posted on 04/30/2005 4:04:17 PM PDT by Graymatter
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