California protesters win pepper spray lawsuit

Yahoo News/AP ^ | 04/29/05 | Justin M. Noton

[Imaverygooddriver]

Starting fires after Schwarzenneger won..Oh that`s right, there`s no evidence of that. Uhh..Yeah ok. It must have all been a coincidence.

[muir_redwoods]

"I'll send them the $8 myself and give them (the cops) a pat on the back for their restraint."

I have no love for these protesters or their position but I find the cops' actions absolutely unjustifiable. They dishonor any LEO who wears a badge.

[not5150]

And can you give some reasons why you think the actions were not justified?

I think the LEOs had perfect escalation of force for subjects that were chained up and causing a disturbance.

1. Presence
2. Verbal Commands
3. Light physical force
4. Pepper spray

What would you have done?

As a former LEO, I think these officers performed well.

[muir_redwoods]

Putting a chemical agent into the eyes of restrained detainees is chemical torture for no other purpose than to cause discomfort. They were restrained and no further risk could be expected from them. I somehow don't like the idea of chemical torture being used by the police in this country against Americans and neither did the jury.

I think this is a case where there should be more former LEO's

[not5150]

Ok... let's say a group of people walk into your house and chains themselves to a fridge.

Should the police wait around and do nothing?

This was a civil trial, the jury found damages for $1, which means that they didn't think the actions needed a large monetary settlement. They believed the police were slightly overagressive, and that it was not torture. Hence the $1 award.

A million dollar award would have been different.

[yarddog]

As a former leo I would assume you would know the difference between the inside of a person's home and areas open to normal commerce even if they are on private property. You expect a whole lot more privacy in your home than you do in your yard.

For that matter even if a person was chained to my refrigerator, I would not torture him. I would simply remove him. Now if he was resisting with any kind of force, that changes things.

I haven't studied this particular case but the fact that they were able to apply pepper spray to their eyes with swabs, makes it pretty clear they weren't fighting them.

Cops simply abusing their authority.

[hattend]

"The plaintiffs were never in it for the money. They were in it for the principle," attorney Tony Serra said.

I hope they pay you in "priciple", Tony.

[not5150]

"I would simply remove him. Now if he was resisting with any kind of force, that changes things."

See thats the crux of the matter. You cannot simply remove them, because they are chained up and refuse to leave.

You must use some force to move them and that is what the officers did.

[yarddog]

Ever heard of bolt cutters, diamond saws, ceramic cut off wheels etc?

[not5150]

And so the protestors will magically move away when you cut the cable??

You have to lay your hands on them to move them.

[muir_redwoods]

"A million dollar award would have been different.

Not legally, a win is a win and the jury found against the police.

We differ. The police are the government and as a conservative, I distrust the government. When a jury finds against the government in a proceeding where evidence neither you nor I heard was presented, I am convinced the government, in this case the police, over-reached and violated the law.

But, as I said, we differ.

[not5150]

"In both cases demonstrators linked their arms inside metal sleeves and refused to let go until after the liquid spray was applied.

Authorities said they used the pepper spray because they were afraid that cutting the metal cuffs would injure the demonstrators."

Bolt cutters and saws would not have worked in this case.

[not5150]

"The police are the government and as a conservative, I distrust the government."

No sir... distrusting the government is not part and parcel with being a conservtive. To say so is to insult most conservatives, including myself.

[muir_redwoods]

"distrusting the government is not part and parcel with being a conservtive."

We seriously differ.

[Alia]

No, no, no, no, NO!

There are important FACTS being left out of this story, and the *))(*(^ person who wrote this -- knows the facts are not being fully told.

The protestors STORMED Frank Riggs' office -Shouting, screaming, and refused to leave after they were repeatedly, and civilly asked to leave or, be civil. They continued to harangue, heckle, scream.

I didn't think the pepper spray was inappropriate. These protestors stormed, like wild animals. They were not members of the "civil society" when they did what they did.

[Alia]

You are obviously not aware of the full facts. If you were, I hardly think a "Leo" would assert such nonsense as you have in your post. You were not given the full set of facts in the article.

[yarddog]

"In both cases demonstrators linked their arms inside metal sleeves and refused to let go until after the liquid spray was applied.

OK I didn't know that. If they had no other way of removing them then fine. In my minds eye I pictured them simply using the pepper to make them move because they weren't obeying their orders.

[Alia]

Are you a troll? Is this what Leo-Trolls sound like? Get the facts, dude. You don't have them. You have no idea what happened in Frank Riggs' office that day.

[Alia]

You have to lay your hands on them to move them.

Bingo.

[yarddog]

Yep, you are right, I wasn't aware of what was really happening. If what I thought was happening was the case then I maintain my position was correct, but I see that wasn't the case.