Methodists to Reinstate Defrocked Minister

Associated Press ^ | Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 - 11:51 AM | FOSTER KLUG Associated Press Writer

[RobertP]

Methodists to Reinstate Defrocked Minister Updated: Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 - 11:51 AM

By FOSTER KLUG Associated Press Writer

LINTHICUM, Md. (AP) - The United Methodist Church reversed itself Friday, deciding to reinstate a lesbian minister who was defrocked after revealing her relationship with another woman.

A church panel voted 8 to 1 to set aside an earlier decision to defrock Irene "Beth" Stroud for violating the church's ban on openly gay clergy.

The Philadelphia minister said she was relieved by the ruling and hopes the church will become more inclusive to people regardless of sexual orientation.

After Stroud disclosed the relationship to her congregation two years ago, the church defrocked her, meaning that she could no longer serve communion or baptize anyone. She kept the title of associate minister and worked in a lay capacity at the First United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia.

"The church is not free to disregard the standards of justice and inclusiveness that are preached by Jesus Christ ... and are a part of church law," Stroud said after church authorities read their decision at a hotel.

"The ruling gives us hope that the United Methodist Church has the resources to do justice," she said.

[halieus]

They support abortion? Do you have some references or links?

You can start at the UMC's "What We Believe" Page:

Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection.

Mainline Denominations Endorse Sunday's Pro-Abortion March

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yeah, but the Methodists' lesbian clerics (and their partners) are affirmed, vindicated, celebrated.

The Catholics' position is that homosexual men should not be ordained to the priesthood. The homosexual priests who have aleady been ordained are required to vow to abstain from sexual relations. They are taught (as we are all taught) that sexual relations outside of marriage is a serious sin. If they offend, they face disciplinary action. If they offend with a minor, they face criminal charges.

There's a difference here.

[Jimmy Valentine]

"How about polygamists, polyandrists,(we'll leave the rest alone) ???"

They are only Methodists, not Mormans.

My circuit riding ancestors would have burned these people at the stake.

[AppyPappy]

When we ask local people about the UMC, they only think about the local church. They call it the "rich church". Rich, white and conservative. That's the UMC around town.

I live in a college town. People automatically assume "liberal". I ain't moving because of what other people think.

[AppyPappy]

Except the Catholic leadershop turned their head and transferred some accused priests to other churches. That's an endorsement. They also ignored gay clergy in seminaries. The Catholic clergy today is gay as a May Pole.

OTOH the Methodists have defrocked gay clergy instead of transferring them.

[irish_links]

"...The Catholic clergy today is gay as a May Pole..."

Perhaps you should confine your remarks to matters of which you are familiar. Such libelous hearsay is beneath you.

[AppyPappy]

OK. I made up all the accusations about priests.

[ZULU]

Well, things proceed by degrees you know and our society is governed by legal precedents. If the precedent we establishing is that a sexual abberration like lesbianism is acceptable, the other perservsions will inevitably follow.

My point is these groups have diverged substantially from their theological roots and I doubt if the Methodist, Presbyterian or Anglican of several generations ago would ever dream of, or approve of such blatant anti-Christian, anti-Biblical practises.

[halieus]

They call it the "rich church". Rich, white and conservative. That's the UMC around town.

That's how my UMC was when I was growing up. A social club more than anything.

I never actually met God until I went on a work trip as a teenager. Didn't become a Christian until I was an adult, despite all of those years of attending the UMC -- I was an acolyte, confirmed, and all the rest. Largest UMC in Michigan (at the time). Totally devoid of God.

Writing this makes me wonder... can I formally withdraw my membership? I think I ought to do that.

[earlyamerican]

You're right. My ancestors would be mortifed at the Methodist Church of today. My family includes early bishops of the Church in New Jersey. I no longer participate but would like to find a new church.

[irish_links]

"..I just have a problem with the whole swearing allegiance to the Pope thing. The Cardinals should be swearing to God.."

I am not as conversant with the catechism as I should be, but I will take a stab. We Catholics believe that the pope is Christ's Vicar on earth, the spiritual leader of the universal church, which in turn is the Bride of Christ. A sinner like us all, the pontiff is nevertheless the elect of the Holy Spirit, and as such is deserving of our respect and honor.

As such, we accept and obey the office of the pope's conclusions on matters of dogma when spoken ex cathedra in the form of encyclicals and papal bulls. This represents a fealty to the office of the papacy and the universal church which it heads, not an allegiance to a man per se.

I'm not certain what line of thought you are following with regard to ecclesiastical officials and bishop members of the College of Cardinals. It may be a variation of the "catholics worship Mary and the Saints" canard. I don't know.

Anyway, the cardinals are subordinate to the pontiff in matters of church governance. Like every Catholic, the cardinals are obligated to uphold Catholic orthodoxy as expounded by the office of the pope. This is not a matter of swearing allegiance to a man. Plain and simple, the church is hierarchical and not a democracy. This is how the Catholic church differs from the Protestant denominations. On matters of faith and dogma, we follow the teachings of the church (the Magisterium), derived from scripture, revelation and 2,000 years of study and consideration. We may only apply individual conscience on matters that do not directly conflict with church teachings.

Some find this a difficult hurdle to leap. Those of us who do not simply view it as the price of orthodoxy. It can be a big pill to swallow, but the rewards are incredibly rich.

[RobertP]

Appy is correct. What the Methodist church needs is people to stand up and clense the temple. I live about an hour west of Lithicum, MD where this story is taking place. Most of the Methodist churches in my town are very liberal and the congregation is very supportive of liberalism.

[Rytwyng]

we accept and obey the office of the pope's conclusions on matters of dogma when spoken ex cathedra in the form of encyclicals and papal bulls.

As one who is 5/8 Irish Catholic by ancestry, and who has studied Irish history, I have to ask: What do you think of the Papal Bull of Adrian the 4th (the only English pope), which authorized the English conquest of Ireland?

[One Proud Dad]

First, thank you for you answer. I am trying very hard to understand and ask questions without seeming to be critical.

I have been to several masses and other Catholic functions. I have spoken to a couple of priests in passing conversation but am wanting an opinion of a non-clergy, but church-educated member.

One other question, how do you explain the apparent worship of Saints or the Virgin Mary as equals to God and Christ as not a sacrilage. The Bible says worship no other gods before me. It just appears to me that you ( the church ) are placing these humans on a diety level. Again what I ( others ) perceive as worship may not be. This is just one other question I have pondered, but have not asked a church official, I guess because I did not want to start an argument or offend.

[BibChr]

If you talk like you write, I can't imagine their thinking it about you for very long.

(c8

[irish_links]

What do you think of the Papal Bull of Adrian the 4th (the only English pope), which authorized the English conquest of Ireland?

I don't have much problem with that one. Were it not for this most felicitous event, Ireland would never have known the young British priest known as Patricius (St. Patrick), our Patron Saint and evangelist.

The Holy See did sell the Irish down the river to the Brits later on, however, in the Fifteenth Century. I believe, in a complex bit of legerdemain relating to competing interests among the Spanish, French and British crowns. The pope authorized the Brits to concur the Norman Irish aristocrats who were on the wrong side of some sort of clash among the European Houses. Before you knew it Henry VIII created the Church of England and Oliver Cromwell got himself a New Model Army and the rest was one long sad history.

Blame the pope if you will, but it was the scoundrel Cromwell and his planters that sucked the life from the Old Sod.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Yes you did.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Approval is a funny game. Just ask Cardinal Law.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Gay Ministers is not a policy of the Methodist church either, the minister was defrocked, and apparently now reinstated. But it is in no way a national policy of the Methodist church.

[Old Mountain man]

If that doesn't work out, you are always welcome at your local LDS Church.