The war on religion

Mark Pryor, the junior senator from Arkansas, may not make the news very often, but when he does say something newsworthy, it's a doozy. The other day, he strongly objected to those religious fanatics (fa-nat-ics -- anyone who disagrees with you strongly) who have campaigned against the never-ending filibuster that denies the president's judicial nominees a straight up-or-down vote in the U.S. Senate. Mark Pryor wasn't so much challenging these folks' political views but their daring to express them. It's unbecoming, you see, for church people to participate in the low rough-and-tumble of politics. Their tactics, he says, could "make the followers of Jesus Christ just another special interest group."

Some of our founders were indeed Christian. What does that have to do with the order of our government? There are traditions involved with government that are Christian in nature, but they are not found in the Constitution. Show me one clause that can clearly be shown to come from the bible.

It has everything to do with our government because our government is influenced by our culture. We must maintain a Judeo-Christian culture that will allow us to have the Republic our founding fathers created.

We have already embraced homosexuality. Since we are already on our way out according to you, we might as well try to live up to our creed and give everyone the right to marry who they desire.

No we have not. Only the LEftists scum who control the media would have you believe!

So you would allow pedophiles to marry who they want?

The majority of Christians I know are promisuious as well, and more then a few have had weddings with their baby on the front row. So I say Christianity leads to promiscuity and disease, should we not allow people to practice religion?

That isnt promiscuity coming from Christianity, but from other social problems being created by an athiest degenerate culture.

I like how we know that polygamy and homosexuality will destroy us because it says so in a book that is against those things. "It's in the book WE wrote. Look it up." That isn't the most convincing thing.

History look at Weimer Germany, Roman and Greek Empires for the disease of Homosexuality and loook at Arab cultures to see how polygomy destroys cultures.

Now answer me some questions

Name some good examples of good governments founded soley by athiests?

I would venture to guess that there are no governments founded solely by atheists. Before our system being atheistic was not looked on in a positive light. No matter ones belief they would say the proper prayers and offer the proper sacrifices because it was expected. Our system wasn't created solely by Christians either though. And the fact remains it is our culture and traditions that are Judeo-Christian and not our Constitution. Madison didn't request Jefferson to send him a bible when he was preparing for the convention. He wanted the best political science books Jefferson could find in all of Paris. How can our Constitution be so steeped in Judeo-Christianity when we borrowed from previous governments that existed in nations that were not Judeo-Christian? And used ideas from non-Christians?

You are right it is all the queers fault that Weimar Germany fell. It had nothing to do with inflation, unemployment and Hitler being willing to do whatever is necessary to ascend to power had nothing to do with it. That sounds more like the disease of poor government then poor culture.

You think the promiscuity comes from other sources I maintain Christianity forces people to repress their feelings and be ashamed of their bodies. At some point this becomes too much and they rebell against it. You can only tell someone their natural urges are bad for so long before they will rebell against that. The worst part of it is, they begin having sex with no knowledge of how to protect themselves because parents don't want to talk about sex because good Christian kids don't have it.

I have already stated people can do as they wish in their own homes, and marry who they wish as long as it is between consenting adults. This is not so far from what we have now. It is illegal for people under 18 to marry without their parent's consent.

How can our Constitution be so steeped in Judeo-Christianity when we borrowed from previous governments that existed in nations that were not Judeo-Christian? And used ideas from non-Christians?

The Magna Carta, John Locke, Montesquie, come from France and England at time when they were devoutly Christian.

And the fact remains it is our culture and traditions that are Judeo-Christian and not our Constitution.

You cannot separate the culture from the government. It is the culture and moral the people have that creates the type of government they have. Our founding fathers came from a Judeo-Christian culture and that was their main influence.

You are right it is all the queers fault that Weimar Germany fell. It had nothing to do with inflation, unemployment and Hitler being willing to do whatever is necessary to ascend to power had nothing to do with it. That sounds more like the disease of poor government then poor culture.

First off Germany was in chaos because of a loss of Christian values and that lead all their other problems. Hitler and his queers then came and we know the rest. The fact is without a Judeo-Christian culture America will go down the tubes.

I maintain Christianity forces people to repress their feelings and be ashamed of their bodies

Christianity also forces people to respect their parents, not to kill, and rape. What an awful religion oppressing people from the right to act like savages.

I have already stated people can do as they wish in their own homes, and marry who they wish as long as it is between consenting adults.

No they cant. People cant use or sell drugs in their homes. You cannot moleste children in their homes. We have restrictions, that are neccessary for a greater freedom, which is the freedom to live in a peaceful flourishing society.

This is not so far from what we have now. It is illegal for people under 18 to marry without their parent's consent.

Why is the parents consent needed? Were do we derive this from?

Our Judeo-Christian culture that teaches us to respect our parents. It also teaches us about the innocence of young children that needs to be preserved. Leftist athiests have no respect for Judeo-Christianity which is why they are against age of consent laws.

Without Judeo-Christianity many laws which Im sure you support would not be in place.

The Constitution of the US is based on Judeo-Christian Values.

Which Constitution?

Not The United States Constitution.

Besides the 18th & 21st Amendment which are both covered there is nothing in the Bible that remotely resembles our Constitution.

Romans 13

13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

1 Timothy 2

2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Can you point me to anyone in the Bible that says anything remotely like "consent of the Governed" or Freedom of Speech?

The only way we will lose if we go your way the cowards way and ignore our Judeo-Christian heritage!

Just like you've won the abortion issue or gotten prayer ~~forced~~ back into schools

An activist liberal judge is a very religious person. To claim he or she is not is to not know how they live day to day, or choose to ignore it if they do know about it.

I do find it interesting that when fundamentalist Christians set out to insult something the first thing they call it is a "Religion"

Secular humanism is the fastest growing religion today in the USA.

Secular Humanism is a meaningless buzzword

But yes, the fastest growing "religion" is people claiming no religion. Doubling in number in 10 years while Christians declined by ~10%.

And they voted overwhelmingly, like more than 80 percent, for democrats.

More like 62-36

But considering George Bush #1 said they are not real Americans, it's hard to blame them

But interestingly enough, From the Link above (p. 38)

People with no religion are actually less likely to be Democrats than many of the people in many Christians sects including the Baptist, Catholics, Methodist, Pentacostals and Episcopalians. In fact they are 1% less likely to be a Democrat than the population as whole.

They are less likely to be Republicans of course but they all a'int the radical left wingers you probably think they all are. I would rather not concede this growing group to the Democrats.

You fail to recognize the fight over judges if you are unwilling to know about what they say in the privacy of their wine and cheese shin digs about 'people' and the purpose of people. What they say about 'careers', what they say about animals even.

I'm fully aware what the left is all about, which is why I'm here.

I promise you: the left is not irreligious. They have a faith, a liturgy ... and the number one thing they fear is faith which competes effectively with theirs.

And it's why you fear them. They want to use the power of big government to force their socialist agenda on everybody while you want to use the power of big government to force your religious agenda on everybody.

Interestingly, I have yet to see someone put together three links to political journal articles which thoughtfully and reasonably provide the evidence that the Christians in the GOP are driving fence sitters into the arms of leftists. That explains how the GOP profits and the democrats suffer if the godful GOPers and the godless GOPers both agree that shutting up about God and Christ.

Good luck finding a non-biased person to do such a report.

Knowing that Christians vote GOP overwhelmingly, why is it a bad thing that we reach out to fence sitters and introduce them to Christ?

Do you have any links which address these points?

Yeah,

The 1998 Election

The 2004 election (That a joker like Kerry even came as close as he did)

The election of Bill Clinton twice

From the Southern Baptist Familiy Life Council findings - Quote "88 percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at the age of 18, never to return". If your own children don't want any part of your agenda, how do expect to keep/attract non-fundamentalist to the Republican party with it?

Demographics. Gen-X and especially Gen-Y are less religious than the older generations. As the older generations die off the numbers of Christians is going to continue it's decline.

The Santorum Amendment was quitely withdrawn

No prominant Republican on the national level has or will ever say the world is only 6000 years old

***

Now back to the topic of this thread.

Yes, If we make this fight over judges a fight only for the Religious Right the we will lose, The abortion debate was fought on religious grounds and look how well that worked out*. Make the debate about the Constitution, runaway liberal activist judges, etc, and assuming Frist has the balls we will win.

* In one of life's greatest ironies, the tide in the abortion issue has turned not because of religion but because of science (via better ultrasounds, etc) which so many fundamentalist Christians hate so much .

Why is the line drawn their? Where do you get the knowledge to draw the line their? If gay marriage and polygomy why not pedophilia and beastality?

We get our knowledge that these are wrong through our Judeo-Christian heritage and history!

Really, Care to quote the Bible verse that says Pedophilia is wrong?

That isnt promiscuity coming from Christianity, but from other social problems being created by an athiest degenerate culture.

Yeah Sure. Let me guess, There was a time when there was no adultrey, murders, wars, racism, pedophilia, homosexuality, out of wedlock sex, etc and the world lived in one big Christian Utopia, all until Darwin and other Atheist came along and ruined it all.

Give me a break

But your asertion that Christians are more moral than everybody else is just flat out wrong

1) Atheist/Agnostic are ~15% of the population yet make up just 0.2% of the prison population

2) From 1991 to 2001, The Number of the non-religious doubled in number while at the same time the number calling themselves Christians declined by 10% this decline in Christianity is especially seen in young people.

Yet the even though the younger generations are the most unchristian violent crime rate has declined through this period, as well as The pregnancy rate for unmarried women has continuously declined through the 1990s and the abortion rate dropped by about 25 percent for both married and unmarried women through the 1990s , The teen Pregnancy Rate Reached a Record Low, More Teenagers are saying no to sex and Drug use by teenagers continues to decline.

3) Born Again Christians are just as likely to divorce as are Non-Christians

4) Modern day Japan is for all practical purposes an Atheist country yet their society seems to be doing fine. Compare them to very Christian countries like those in Latin America whose societies are in constant chaos and turmoil.

Now if religion had anything to do with being moral, As the country turns more secular wouldn't the trends be going in the opposite direction.

Here is two articles for ya' on how the morailty of young people in our country is improving greatly

Rush Limbaugh on the Next Generation and It's the Morning after in America

You will notice 1 thing missing from both articles, Religion.

" Good luck finding a non-biased person to do such a report."

That's my point - it is only here, at FR, that the biased folks such as yourself are making this argument ... none of the libertarian think tanks are saying any of what you are arguing as to why religious GOPers should back off. It is a key reason why when the evo fanatics attack Christians here, I always ask for the defense of what they claim is motivating them: saving the wonderful GOP from the horrible clutches of Christians.

Provide some links I say! But the links are not present ... at least you linked to SOMETHING ... but none were a non-FR point of view that agrees with you.

The links you did provide effectively brush us Christians with evidence of how ineffective we really are ... but not how bad for the GOP we are.

"I do find it interesting that when fundamentalist Christians set out to insult something the first thing they call it is a "Religion""

I wasn't intending to insult at all. It is clear to me the secularists deceptively state that they are religion-free. They are not ... they have their own 'spiritual' lingo and practices, their own pursuit of 'goodness' as they define it.

"And it's why you fear them. They want to use the power of big government to force their socialist agenda on everybody while you want to use the power of big government to force your religious agenda on everybody."

I do not fear them. And I do not want to use 'big government' to force my 'religious agenda' on anyone. I do want my representatives to bring a total stop to the insane homosexual agenda being forced on little kids.

You seem to not understand something qam1.

A credenda is a list of things to be believed.
An agenda is a list of things to do.

The former fuels the latter, necessarily, and the latter does not exist w/o the former.

Be honest: your credenda does exist ... just like mine. Thus, your agenda exists, just like mine. But what your credenda is missing is something mine is offering: attractiveness.

The story of Christ is far more compelling than Immanuel Kant's first imperative.

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