Posted on 04/25/2005 4:05:32 PM PDT by GB
I knew when Frist announced that he would not run again.....that he would be a bad majority leader.
He is just riding out his time...enjoying his fancy dinners and Senate good life.
He has folded on dang near every major issue.
He has wasted a mandate!
He never had any intention of using the Constitutional (nuke) option. It was all talk.
He worries too much about what papers will say about him.
I guess he thinks he can run for Gov of Tenn or Pres. Not now.
He should not worry what liberals in the press write....they are gonna rag on Republicans no matter what.
Okay, let's draw back a bit. I'm as angry as anyone over the weak kneed response so far but..
1) There is no word of Frist's position on this suggestion by the Democrats. Dems are floating it out there, imo, to test its viability.
2) He has never stated he'd agree to let Dems pick an appointee.
3) I think Frist is a good man. Whether he has a spine is in doubt, but his decency I don't believe can be legitimately questioned.
4) Frist has stated he would prefer a compromise. I don't believe a compromise is possible while retaining Constitutional rights with this group of Liberal Democrats. Frist either calls the vote or Republicans lose their base. There is no acceptable option so far as I can conceive.
Time to end the Filibuster.
I just don't know anymore, Sleuth. Frist has not been too reliable
He has caved on too many things since he became majority leader. I just don't know.
I don't think he had the testicular fortitude to use the constitutional option.
We knew when they picked him for majority leader...that he had a habit of "working with both sides".
That's another thing. I did not elect these goons to work with liberals. I elected that to work against those loons in hopes that we could undo some of the liberal crap that has gone on.
Man...I hope you are right.
I mean...I know Frist is a decent man. No question about that. But as far as being leader...well...he has a lot to prove....and little time to do it.
I hope that my cloud over my head right now is about nothing.........but I am worried.
I will feel much better if Frist was gonna run for another term. Then he would not be so inclined to ride out his time.
I have no reason to believe that Frist isn't doing the best that can be done behind closed doors to get people like Chaffee, Collins, Snowe, Hagel, McCain and Voinovitch to support Bolton. You have now proof to the contrary. Do you think that Frist is going to go out and threaten these RINO senators in public? Whatever hardball he's playing is behind closed doors. You have no idea what he's doing.
To take your statement seriously that Frist is not owed any blame in his Leadership skills, I would have to in turn assume it is merely "luck" that the Democrats haven't suffered the same problem.
That's your proof?
The MSM, both locally and nationally, will crucify Chaffee, Snowe and Collins in their home states if they support Bolton. The people of those states would probably vote the three out? It's been happening for years. You haven't noticed?
Now, the good news is that the MSM is gradually losing its dominance. We may be at a tipping point soon. But it's not certain that that time has come.
Do you realize that a majority of the people in this country voted for either Gore or Nadar in 2000? It wasn't much better in 2004. Yet you blame Frist.
Observe this thread, and conservatives such as yourself. You're not primarily targeting Democrats or RINO's. You're primarily targeting Frist. Thread after freeping thread on FreeRepublic over the last few days. Very little criticism of the Dems and the Rino's. It's been Frist, Frist and Frist. What do you think the consequences of that misplaced blame is for the Dem's and especially the RINO's who Frist is trying to convince??
The Dem's and RINO's are laughing. Their blame has vanished ---- even on FreeReepublic. It's Frist, Frist and Frist.
RINO's to Frist: Why should we support Bolton. You, Frist is getting all the blame.
Unfortunately, I agree with you Army, more than I agree with myself---LOL
I guess I am trying to be positive, because I feel helpless--I have made phone calls, sent e-mails until I am exhausted, but I doubt it is doing any good, if there is ANY validity to this article re: Frist working on a compromise---
I just sometime feel like going to Washington, walking up to Bush and shaking him and telling him that he is wrong, on border control and he seems to be the only one in America that doesn't know it---
Then go to the Capitol building and go into senate and tell the GOP that the Bolton nomination and the judicial nominees is ALL that we can talk about so DO IT, do whatever it takes to get them a VOTE,NOW!
Reality check: Chaffee, Snowe, Collins and Voinovitch care. Hagal and McCain seem to care too.
IF you are going to accuse me of something rather than answer the challenge I posed to you to explain why the Democrats can keep their Party together in the U.S. Senate and the Republicans cannot, you might accuse me of something I am actually guilty of.
My first response from you was one word. Your second response avoids the question. Until you can answer why Democrats do not experience the same troubles, I refuse to be distracted into any discussion that will take us off your central argument.
I'm not confidant. I have no evidence to suggest yet that Frist is a good leader. I'm not even stating his "compromise" will be acceptable. Only trying to keep the NYT's lies from being taken as reality.
And it's clear the only ones that have endorced Reid's proposal are Reid and the MSM.
I answered you're question. Yet you avoid all that I said except for the one sentence that you cut and paste. How dishonest...or careless.
I hope it turns out to be nothing.
I hope Frist tells Harry to take a hike.
Right now....many of us are as nervous as a jar of Vaseline at Neverland
Okay. for sake of argument I admit I'm dishonest. Careless. I'll toss in dense to sooth your sensibilities as well.
Pretend I have an I.Q. in the single digits.
Repeat your answer in condensed form. Why are the Democrats able to keep their members in line and the Republicans are not? I keep hearing excuses as to why Frist is not responsible, but I've yet to hear you answer why the Democrats do not have the same problem.
Until this question is answered I will not reply to any diversionary arguments you make no matter what insults you courageously level.
MSM.
Thank you for answering the question.
But it isn't the correct answer.
The MSM was unable to protect the Democrats from losing their Majority. They lost the Senate, they lost the House, they lost the W.H., they've lost most Governor seats across the nation. The "red state" Senate Democrats are aware of this reality. They watched Dashcle defeated because he was an obstructionist. They are aware the MSM cannot save them from defeat by endorsing the party line. They are also aware their conservative constituents will not look kindly on filibustering these Justices.
If they supported the Republicans they would be better positioned for re-election bids no matter how the MSM reacted to their defection as "red state" voters don't particularly have a high respect for the MSM any longer. So why do they remain loyal? In a word, the Dem Leadership will isolate them in power and financial support and the Liberal base will flame them subjecting them to defeat. This is why there is a difference between the Democrat and the Republicans in defections. They are made to pay a price for "independence" while Republicans are not.
Did Reid begin this practice? No, he benefited from his predecessors but party discipline is now a natural fact of life for democrats in the Senate and it has little to do with the MSM any longer.
As to statements on Democrats they have been repeatedly raked over the coals but at a certain point blaming the Democrats for everything while we retain a majority begins to sound hollow. They receive their fair share of criticism, as they did during the Bolton confirmation hearing. Until the end it was Democrats being savaged and Republicans for once praised. However, Republicans have been ineffectual in assuming their rights as a majority and the base is justified in calling them to account over it.
As to RINO's, I have spent at least have of my posts targeting them specifically calling for their defeat in elections so the accusation is is all Frist all the time doesn't ring true in my case. Nor do claims Frist is even focus of half my concentration. rather than narrow specifically on him I generally denounce the while unit for being jellyfish. The majority of time I do focus on him is ONLY when a thread specifically is about him, as this was.
Do I believe Frist is working behind the scenes? Of course. But I don't trust the outcome. I have no reason to trust the outcome. Delay has delivered. The president has delievered. I've yet to see Frist deliver one important item at great obstacle and risk. Until he does that, and based on the Republicans history of cutting and running in the Senate, we have a right to suspect they will fold yet again.
I thank you for giving me your opinion. I think it's wrong.
BTW, now that I've given you a condensed answer, you've rewarded me with a looong answer. I'll do my best to condense your answer without effecting the context.
The MSM was unable to protect the Democrats from losing their Majority.
With all due respect, that's a non-sequitur response. The MSM was unable to protect the Democrats from losing the Senate, nationally, yes. But it doesn't logically follow that the MSM is not able to hurt Chaffe, Snowe, Collins, Specter and maybe even Voinovitch in their home states. I think the MSM is able to and would.
As to RINO's, I have spent at least have of my posts targeting them specifically calling for their defeat in elections so the accusation is is all Frist all the time doesn't ring true in my case. Nor do claims Frist is even focus of half my concentration. rather than narrow specifically on him I generally denounce the while unit for being jellyfish. The majority of time I do focus on him is ONLY when a thread specifically is about him, as this was.
I appreciate the effort.
As to statements on Democrats they have been repeatedly raked over the coals but at a certain point blaming the Democrats for everything while we retain a majority begins to sound hollow.
Republicans are a majority. Conservative Republicans aren't a majority.
Do I believe Frist is working behind the scenes? Of course. But I don't trust the outcome. I have no reason to trust the outcome. Delay has delivered. The president has delivered. I've yet to see Frist deliver one important item at great obstacle and risk.
We're back to the same argument again. You say Frist isn't delivering. I say that their is no evidence that proves that the RINO's are controllable.
If you wanted a condensed answer you should have stated so. Since you still haven't stated you'd prefer a brief response, i choose not to provide one.
But it doesn't logically follow that the MSM is not able to hurt Chaffe, Snowe, Collins, Specter and maybe even Voinovitch in their home states.
Read my response. I specifically was addressing Democrats. IF you wish me to addess the option of Republicans into the equasion relating to the MSM, fine.
Specter is widely believed to be concluding his last term in office. The press is irrelevant in such a scenario. Chafee, Snowe and Collins are dependant on Liberals for office as much as they are dependant on conservatives. Their gamble has always been that Republicans would vote for them no matter what so they would kiss up to the Liberals and stab the party that brought them to power in the back. My response is that they betray us on this issue, and they can forget conservative support that would make it very difficult to win without. Chafee is already in serious trouble precisely because Republicans don't like him, and Democrats would prefer a Democrat rather than a RINO.
I personally want them defeated either way so I'm not particurly sympathetic to the idea we have to accomodate those that we cannot depend on and only hurt the cause of conservatisism being advanced.
Republicans are a majority. Conservative Republicans aren't a majority.
Frist is the leader of the Republican Party. Not the Conservative party. If he cannot unify the Senators than he is failing at his job as majority Leader.
We're back to the same argument again. You say Frist isn't delivering. I say that their is no evidence that proves that the RINO's are controllable.
Which is why I stated this debate is over. I a tired of talking in circles and have to head to bed.
Read my response. I specifically was addressing Democrats. IF you wish me to addess the option of Republicans into the equasion relating to the MSM, fine.
When you wish to compare Democrats and Republican and how their leadership can keep the rank-and-file in line, then you are talking about at least one if not both parties. It only takes the situation to be different in one of the parties, for the result to be different. So my answer could have been about the R's or it could be about the D's.
But I can also draw similar senario with Democrats if you would like. Certainly, the MSM protects Democrats in Red states. They would never point out the liberal voting record of senator Nelson in Nebraska to the people of Nebraska. In fact they play up Nelson. Why would Democrat Senator Nelson in Nebraska won't to rock that boat?
Specter is widely believed to be concluding his last term in office. The press is irrelevant in such a scenario...
I agree about Spector. I've said on a few threads that he will give Frist and the president what they want on this. I think he made a deal to get the chairmanship. Can't prove it of course.
I just faxed it to him !!!!!
****
One more time! You are so right!
Not yet.
;-)
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