Putin deplores collapse of USSR

BBC News ^ | April 25, 2005

[HAL9000]

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has described the collapse of the Soviet Union as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century.

Mr Putin's annual state of the nation address to parliament was broadcast live on Russian television.

He said the break-up of the USSR in 1991 was "a real drama" which left tens of millions of Russians outside the Russian Federation.

He also said Russia must develop as a "free and democratic" country.

But he stressed that Russia "will decide for itself the pace, terms and conditions of moving towards democracy".

"We are a free nation and our place in the modern world will be defined only by how successful and strong we are".

It was Mr Putin's second state of the nation address since being re-elected by a landslide in 2004.

[GarySpFc]

You were a theologian in special forces?

No, I served on a Special Forces A-Team in the sixties, and was discharged in 1969. I am a life member of the Special Forces Association, and maintain contacts with active and retired SF. During the seventies I attended a seminary where I received my master and doctoral degrees.

[lizol]

Eeeeeh Ivan, Ivanyshka - looks like you'll always find some justification for Putin - no matter what he says.

[BOBTHENAILER]

Putin is now on a threshhold of great possibility, freed of territorial imperatives and totalitarian constraints. He should be looking to a free and prosperous future. The major feature of Christianity is the eternal prospect of salvation, which is surely preferable to any nostalgia for past empire.

Great post.

[RussianBoor]

I wonder if your nick have the same meaning in Polish as in Russian, derived from the verb "to lick". Again, quite illuminating. Very Freudian, really. Psychology of an unconscious toad-eater :))

[RussianBoor]

No, it should read as you have said first. You should give a shit in your pants all the time. What goes around comes around. I do not threaten you, I am a Christian, unlike you. I just state plain and simple that what you have said, and you have humiliated innocent people and wished them to die, although they did not do anything to you, such things do not go unpunished, so some shitting on your part is in order.

[lizol]

Pol. lizol - Eng. lysol

Sorry pal, but I have no idea what you mean.
What's illuminating??? What's very Freudian???

Who's supposed to be an "unconscious toad-eater" (and why)?

Are you trying to offend me?

If so - I don't know why, because I can't recall when I attacked you in any way.

[Tailgunner Joe]

One only has to look at the Inquisition to see they murdered more than the communists

I think you need to look again.

No one has murdered more people than Communists. Ever.

The Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity?

[RussianBoor]

No, I do not try to offend you. I just thought your nick may be derived from the Polish verb lizac, oblizywac. And I am sorry but I have to decline the honour to be your pal. I have enough pals.

[lizol]

OK, so this was the answer to my last question.

And how about the three previous ones? If you were not trying to offend me so what did you mean?

Why "licking" is supposed to be illuminating or very Freudian - as far as my humble person is concerned?

And what is that "unconscious toad-eater" thing about?

[lizol]

OK, so this was the answer to my last question.

And how about the three previous ones? If you were not trying to offend me so what did you mean?

Why "licking" is supposed to be illuminating or very Freudian - as far as my humble person is concerned?

And what is that "unconscious toad-eater" thing about?

[Grzegorz 246]

"I am a Christian, unlike you."

Hmm

I have humiliated innocent people ?
In this case It's rather not possible.

And wished them to die ? Wow. I said that I won't cry when they will die, because... Achtung ! Actung ! I don't give a shit about soldiers of the red star.

[spanalot]

"Indeed, the physician at the clinic in Austria recently stated Yushchenko was not poisoned"

"Personally, I think he was poisoned,"

"One only has to look at the Inquisition to see they murdered more than the communists,"

Gary - help me out here - I cant keep up with all the tin foil. Maybe too much "Ti Stick" in the hooch?

[nickcarraway]

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has described the collapse of the Soviet Union as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century.

[spanalot]

Boor Person,

Did you mean to use "Boar" , not "Boor"?

Boorish would be self-deprecating and not at all descriptive of your intelligence.

In any case, Russia's "loss" of Ukraine is a non sequitor as it was never owned by the Kremlin. It was subjugated by the Kremlin for many years and I think Russia can possibly survive only if it stops the hemmoraging with its silly aspirations of imperialism.

It is in fact more probable that Russia will not survive as it is morally bankrupt and incapable of modern infrastructures that rely on trust and not despotism.
See Banfield.

"His greatest book was one of his earliest, The Moral Basis of a Backward Society, published in 1958. Researched and written with his wife, Laura, the book asked why a hilltown in Southern Italy, where Ed and his family had spent nine months living among and interviewing the inhabitants, was so poor. It wasn't because of class structure, as Marx would have insisted, nor because of the lack of national economic planning, as the New Dealers and contemporary development economists would have claimed. Ed argued, instead, that the region's poverty had a "moral basis." He showed that at the root of their squalor was the inhabitants' refusal to trust, and hence to cooperate, with anyone who was not a member of their immediate family.

This "amoral familism," as Ed called it, doomed the people to economic backwardness and political irrelevance. Unless this culture could be changed (and Banfield did not think it could, except slowly and over time), no amount of economic planning, income redistribution, or moral exhortation would turn these fatalistic villagers into eager citizens and entrepreneurs."

This is sad because the doomed Russians are not entirely deserving of this fate.

[GarySpFc]

"Indeed, the physician at the clinic in Austria recently stated Yushchenko was not poisoned"
"Personally, I think he was poisoned,"
Gary - help me out here - I cant keep up with all the tin
foil. Maybe too much "Ti Stick" in the hooch?

The case is all over the internet.


I received death threats, says doctor who denied that Ukrainian leader was poisoned
By Bojan Pancevski in Vienna
(Filed: 27/03/2005)

A senior doctor ousted from the Vienna clinic where Viktor Yushchenko, the Ukrainian president, was treated for dioxin poisoning, claims that his life was threatened after he cast doubt on the diagnosis.

Dr Lothar Wicke, the former clinical director at the Rudolfinerhaus, said that the clinic came under intense pressure from Mr Yushchenko's entourage to diagnose poisoning, even when there was no apparent evidence.

Dr Wicke told The Telegraph that, as the crime writer Agatha Christie liked to point out, there was "no murder without a corpse, and no poisoning without poison".

Mr Yushchenko, 50, first claimed that he had been poisoned in September last year. He suffered severe stomach pains and disfiguring facial lesions while campaigning in Ukraine's bitterly fought presidential election against Viktor Yanukovych, the rival pro-Kremlin candidate.

At the time, doctors believed that his symptoms may have been caused by food-poisoning or a mysterious virus. On September 9, Mr Yushchenko checked into the prestigious clinic in Austria. Initially, it could not confirm the cause but in December, it backed the poison theory.

Speculation that the politician was the victim of a dirty tricks campaign helped him to victory in the elections on December 26.

Dr Wicke remains uncomfortable about the role played by the Rudolfinerhaus in the drama. "The first two times Mr Yushchenko was examined, there was no evidence of poisoning whatsoever," Dr Wicke, 64, said. Yet, to his dismay, persistent leaks from the clinic suggested that the politician had indeed been poisoned.

Dr Wicke said: "I was directly involved, and I can tell you that the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Vienna did not find any traces of poisonous agents in his blood. If there is no poison, there cannot be poisoning and there was no trace of it whatsoever."

He made his feelings public at the end of September, shortly before Mr Yushchenko made a second trip to Vienna for further tests. Dr Wicke told reporters that a "medically forged diagnosis" had been circulated by someone "not permanently employed in this clinic". This was taken to refer to Nikolai Korpan, a Ukrainian-born surgeon who had been treating the politician in Vienna.

Three days later, Dr Wicke received a written request from Dr Michael Zimpfer, the president of the clinic's supervisory board, to retract his remarks.

Dr Wicke marked the memo with the word "Acknowledged". It was after this that a man speaking accented English rang Dr Wicke and introduced himself as "a friend from the Ukraine". He said the man told him to "take care. Your life is in danger". Dr Wicke and his family were then put under 24-hour police guard.

Behind the scenes, Mr Yushchenko's repeated visits to the clinic had caused turmoil, said Dr Wicke, who had worked there for 25 years and was awarded the Cross of Honour First Class for Science and Art by the late Austrian president, Thomas Klestil, last year.

At one point, members of the politician's entourage tussled with Austrian police who were trying to confiscate Mr Yushchenko's medical records at the behest of a Ukrainian parliamentary commission investigating the case.

Dr Wicke is now suing the Rudolfinerhaus for substantial damages. He claims that he was forced out of his job for refusing to go along with the poisoning diagnosis.

Dr Wicke declined to speak at length about the dismissal case but asked if his dismissal was linked to the Yushchenko case, he said: "I will restrain from commenting but, given the facts, you will certainly not find it difficult to make your own conclusion.

"The official announcement said I left of my own free will but that wasn't the case."

He also declined to comment on speculation that Mr Yushchenko was actually suffering from stress and that he was treated by American doctors. It is also thought that the clinic in Vienna might have been used as a smokescreen.

"It was announced during Yushchenko's third visit to Vienna that he had been poisoned but I had been removed from the case by then. I don't know what evidence was taken into consideration," Dr Wicke said.

Dr Korpan said last week that several international laboratories had confirmed that Mr Yuschenko had been poisoned. "There is a reason why Dr Wicke disputed the poisoning diagnosis but it is not a medical one. It will be revealed later," he said. "I can only say that the whole thing is worth writing a book about."

The Rudolfinerhaus refused to comment before Dr Wicke's case is heard on Tuesday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/27/wukr27.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/03/27/ixportal.html

[Tailgunner Joe]

How many times are you going to post the same Kuchma mob disinformation?

Soon after Yushchenko first claimed he had been poisoned, President Leonid Kuchma's son-in-law engaged a French public relations team to initiate a media campaign, centered on a Vienna clinic, calculated to disparage the poisoning accusations, the newspaper said.

Yffic Nouvellon of EuroRSCG and his public relations team arranged a press conference where Lothar Wicke, general manager of Vienna's Rudolfinerhaus Clinic, contradicted Yushchenko's poisoning allegations.

Nouvellon also contacted international media offering "evidence" Yushchenko had not been poisoned. When asked during the media campaign, Nouvellon denied any connections to Kuchma's family - LINK

[GarySpFc]

How many times are you going to post the same Kuchma mob disinformation?

Joe, note the date of your article is December 17, 2004, whereas the article I posted from the News.Telegraph is March 27, 2005. Others are dated 3/28/05, which is well after the election. The Kuchmas mob disinformation came in the form of a fax from a German phone number. The information from this doctor has been verified. Please read the following at: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4164

Google Yushchenko "not poisoned" doctor and note the number of independent articles.

[GarySpFc]

Ping read post 158

[GarySpFc]

It is in fact more probable that Russia will not survive as it is morally bankrupt and incapable of modern infrastructures that rely on trust and not despotism. See Banfield.

Banfield is not correct regarding Russia being morally bankrupt. Communism was, but Russia is not.

I stand corrected on my totals for the Inquisition. My figures came from spurious information, which was over 30 years old.

[Grzegorz 246]

"Russia's "loss" of Ukraine is a non sequitor as it was never owned by the Kremlin."

Yeah ! In a while you will hear that over a thousand year ago there was Kiev Rus and that Ukrainian and Belorussians are just Russian tribes - that's why they should be ruled by Kremlin !

These people would explain even Russian annexation of South Africa...