BROKEN GATES 'It just doesn't feel like Holland any more'

GLobe and Mail ^ | 04/23/05 | DOUG SAUNDERS

[Pikamax]

BROKEN GATES'It just doesn't feel like Holland any more' Troubled by the changes immigration has brought to their country, the van Ramhorst family is coming to Canada

DOUG SAUNDERS saysBy DOUG SAUNDERS

Saturday, April 23, 2005 Page A4

ROTTERDAM -- To a visitor, the village of Nijkerk looks like a model of Dutch calm and order, its neat streets filled with cyclists and lined with tiny townhouses.

But to Bert van Ramshorst and his family, the town no longer feels like home. Its citizens now come in a variety of hues and hold a wide range of beliefs, some of them deeply at odds with the pacifism and expansive liberalism that has long characterized Dutch society.

"I've lived here, in this town, almost all of my life, and it just doesn't feel like Holland any more," the 42-year-old electrical contractor said, as he took a break from packing to sit with his wife and three young children in their narrow, cozy living room. "It doesn't feel like the place where I want to raise my family."

So the van Ramshorst family, troubled by the changes brought about by immigration, have decided to become immigrants themselves.

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With their move to Vancouver this summer, they are joining an unprecedented number of people from the Netherlands who have decided, in recent months, to make a new home in what they see as the more comforting and less divisive Canada.

The sudden exodus to Canada has taken the Dutch government entirely by surprise.

During the past year, and especially during the past five months, the number of Dutch citizens applying to depart for faraway countries -- notably Canada, as well as New Zealand and Australia -- has increased to levels not seen in the tiny nation's modern history.

Most of those emigrants, according to the people who help them make their moves, are leaving because of their complex and surprising feelings about the changes to Dutch society brought about by immigration.

For some, the desire to leave is a response to the immigrants themselves, and what many people here view as their violent, divisive, non-Dutch ways.

But just as many Dutch immigrants seem to be alarmed that immigration has turned their countrymen into angry, intolerant nationalists.

In just about every country in Europe, immigration has become the most significant political issue, by far, in public opinion, media attention and parliamentary action. In Germany, France, Britain and Italy, immigrants have become the dominant election issue.

Faced with shrinking, aging populations and the attendant economic costs, most European countries are badly in need of immigrants. In some countries, this has led to culture shock.

The ethnic cleansing and mass migration of the two world wars left many European countries with one dominant ethnic group, so the presence of large numbers of visibly different people has alarmed and alienated many residents.

Nowhere is this being more strongly felt than in traditionally tolerant, open nations such as Britain and the Netherlands.

While both countries face severe labour shortages and therefore cannot give up on immigration, the public reaction to the demographic changes has been nothing short of fury.

In the campaign leading toward the May 5 national election in Britain, polls show that immigration is by far the most significant issue to voters of all classes and backgrounds -- outpacing by an enormous margin other hot topics such as crime and taxation.

Even the governing left-wing Labour Party has felt compelled to adopt the angry rhetoric of the anti-immigrant right, and has promised to cut back the number of refugees accepted (if not the number of immigrants).

In the Netherlands, the reaction has been equally heated. But there, people are voting with their feet.

"The entire society is changing and people are longing for the world of 20, 30 years ago -- some people believe they can only find that by leaving," says Frans Buysse, a former Canadian embassy employee who runs Holland's largest agency for people wishing to emigrate to Canada.

Mr. Buysse can pinpoint the precise moment when the Dutch outflow became a full-scale flood. On Nov. 2, the libertine filmmaker

Theo van Gogh was murdered in a bloody throat slitting by a Muslim extremist while cycling on an Amsterdam street. To outsiders, it seemed a strange, passing crime. But the Dutch responded, within their tight-knit community, the way some Americans did to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Suddenly, people were noticing immigrant crimes, and committing crimes against immigrants: December saw the firebombing of several mosques and Islamic schools.

During the next four weeks, Mr. Buysse received 13,000 on-line applications from people requesting information on moving to Canada -- more than four times the usual level. Since then, this increase hasn't stopped. And, he says, the thousands of people he has helped move to Canada during the past few years have mentioned either immigration, or intolerance resulting from immigration, as a reason for leaving.

"For certain people, Nov. 2 was a confirmation of their beliefs," he said. "As a society, we have always been very tolerant to people from other places -- for hundreds of years, this has been the case -- but we have become so tolerant that some groups are influencing society in such a way that it starts to become intolerant. People are fed up with this."

While Dutch emigrants cite numerous reasons for going to Canada, including job opportunities, a desire for adventure, and especially the wide-open spaces that are almost absent from the Netherlands, Mr. Buysse and other immigration workers say it is the tension over immigration that has pushed the emigrant numbers so high recently.

According to the Dutch Central Bureau of Statistics, 49,000 people emigrated last year, the highest number since 1954 and a dramatic increase over approximately 30,000 in 1999.

But the statistics do not reveal the strange and often contradictory motives that are driving away thousands of citizens of the Netherlands, a country that has better standards of health care, education and social services and a lower crime rate than most Canadian cities.

The Dutch, a trading people, have had outsiders in their midst for centuries. And while the past two decades have seen a more open approach to immigration from non-European countries, something about this latest wave has deeply galvanized the country against immigration.

Some blame the Dutch policy of cultural segregation, where groups such as North African Muslims are allowed to attend their own schools and not encouraged to learn the local language or culture. Others blame the simple insularity of Dutch society, which forces newcomers into such enclaves, with little hope of wider acceptance.

For two computer technicians in Rotterdam, the problem has to do not with immigration itself, but with the Dutch response to it. In the view of Ge-An Van Rossum, 36, and her husband, Bas Rijniersce, 29, Canada is a place where the tension between immigrants and non-immigrants does not exist, because that distinction does not exist.

"Canadians are all immigrants," Mr. Rijniersce said from the austere living room of their flat in a funky corner of Rotterdam. "One or two generations back, they all emigrated from somewhere else. But here in the Netherlands there has been quite a lot of problems with this question -- integration doesn't work so well. In Canada it's worked better, though I don't know why. There's a little bit more tolerance between people than there is here."

For Mr. van Ramshorst, the small-town electrician, the problem is simply that Holland has let too many people in without any attention to their ability to fit into Dutch society.

"The last 10 years, our government's policy was to tolerate almost everything, and that's not good," he said. "There's law, and there's respect of the law, and you can't just let people do anything. Tolerance is very important, but we've reached the point where we're tolerating people who despise our way of life and want to damage it."

Those fleeing what they see as a degenerating society face difficulties with Canada's immigration system. Even for the well-educated Dutch, it takes two or three years to get an unsponsored application cleared, a tougher process than most people undergo to get into the Netherlands, although Canada takes far more immigrants, as a proportion of its population, than Holland.

This difficulty has become an inspiration for some in the Netherlands, who blame their country's ad hoc immigration system for the cultural clashes. Some favour adopting the Canadian system wholesale.

"We are only now beginning to understand that now we are an immigrant country, and that we therefore need an immigration law," Mr. Buysse said. "Canada has understood that for a long time, and its points system seems to be a good model for us."

So it may seem surprising, after all the effort and research involved, that both the van Ramshorst and the Van Rossum families have decided to settle in the area immediately around Vancouver. (Dutch immigration consultants say that Alberta and British Columbia are the two most popular destinations.) After all, this is a highly multicultural region that has had its own conflicts over assimilation and intolerance.

But both families said that they don't see this as a problem -- in fact, they see B.C.'s heavy immigrant population as benefiting them, as they, too, will be immigrants.

"There's a different social consensus in Canada," Mr. Rijniersce said. "People are more interested in becoming part of Canadian society, and nobody makes a big deal about their arrival."

Netherlands emigration

An unprecedented number of Dutch citizens are deciding to leave Holland and seek citizenship in Canada to escape what they see as at home.

Dutch-born leaving the country

1995: 38,507

1996: 40,365

1997: 37,849

1998: 35,778

1999: 35,785

2000: 37,414

2001: 39,380

2002: 46,631

2003: 45,946

SOURCE: CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION CANADA, STATISTICS NETHERLANDS

[shebacal]

and it was all in Spanish too--not even translated! It's getting weirder and weirder.

Come to southern Oregon. It's still English speaking here, so far, and the price of housing is still reasonable. The change is noticeable as soon as you cross the CA/OR line.

[llama hunter]

well the Dutch fellow was right to some extent

except for the largest cities, like Toronto and the GTA the Greater Toronto area, you don't have these balkanization of immigrants, Toronto and area had tended to develop neighbourhoods, like in NYC, like in London, like in Detroit

I look at my own neighbourhood for an example - at one time we had Germans, Dutch, Vietnamese, Korean, Irish, British, Japanese, Chinese, East Indian, Pakistani, Serbian, Polish, Italian, Hungarian, Portuguese native, black, white and yellow, along with some Canadians, first second and third generation all living in the same middle class neighbourhood, and I'm sure I have forgotten some groups, I don't know if we have any Jews though, there are indeed Jews in Brantford, but they may live in a better part of town, LOL, but most of the other religions all represented - I mean Osama Bin Laden would have a heart attack

.....no racial strife here, just the usual petty neighbour dust ups from time to time in fact the biggest feud I remember was my friends who couldn't stand their teacher neighbours, and they were all Canadian....LOL....teachers are a different breed, LOL

now I don't know if we have any Arabs in the neighbourhood though there clearly has been an influx of Arabs into the city - all the gas stations on the main strip seem to belong to Arabs now, but you know they are friendly people, good service, keep the places immaculate so hey

I remember when I went to school, the kids that came from immigrant families, we had an Italian guy, an East Indian family that was Hindu, and a Sikh family, well I'll tell you, we all had those kids corrupted in no time, LOL,
all the East Indian kids rebelled, they became very Canadianized very fast, even the Sikh fellow, though they did get it rougher by some kids, me and my siblings were always friendly with these kids, in fact the one East Indian boy was part of my brother's crew, as the kids say today, of course he was lucky he didn't have to wear any special clothes so he fit in better than the girls who had to wear saris etc, which they hated....and see this is the key, you have to assimilate quickly....LOL


in high school, it was pretty white bred school but many of us were first generation Canadians, I am - we had 2 black families, two brothers in one, two sisters in the other, they were all excellent athletes so they were popular in our school [our high school was a lot like an American high school, athletes ruled, didn't even matter what socioeconomic background you were from, if you were good at sports, everyone loved you] we also had some Chinese kids, fully assimilated before they even got to high school, also popular kids, we did also have native kids, some of the native kids weren't treated well sometimes, that I'll admit but others were, again there was one native kid who was an excellent athlete, very popular, I hung out with a couple of native kids too - of course when you think about high school, we all could be vicious to each other about petty things, never mind race, I remember how rich your parents were was more a dividing line.....unless again you were a jock or cheerleader


we get migrant workers in the summer time because the local farmers can't find local workers so they are brought in from Holland, surprisingly enough, that is how my Dad, now 75, came to Canada, as a farm worker, they bring them in from Mexico, Jamaica....but these guys have to go back home, wonder if they do?

BC now that is a Dutchie haven, my mother and her family settled in BC when they first came to Canada, I have aunts and uncles and cousins out there still, they even had a Dutch Canadian premier, remember old Bill Vanderzalm, he had some corruption scandal bring him down, shocking for a Dutchman....

however as a Canadian of Dutch origin, welcome, Dutchies, come on down, you are mostly decent folk that work hard.....

[llama hunter]

um actually the natives are also immigrants technically

the theory is they walked over from Asia during the end of the ice age

there is some evidence as well now that some of the native people that settled in the Americans may have come from as far as where France is today, a theory......

[mlmr]

To the Dutch we are the Great Satan.

[Scothia]

Come to southern Oregon. It's still English speaking here, so far, and the price of housing is still reasonable. The change is noticeable as soon as you cross the CA/OR line.

In my dreams...

Hey, what about all that anti-Californian sentiment up there? I've already been warned by friends who live near Salem.

[dagnabbit]

Every Dutch Prime Minister of the last 30 years, still living, should be in prison.

[Tallguy]

Why? It's not like Canada looks like Canada anymore either.

Canada is becoming Asia/West.

[eleni121]

"There's a different social consensus in Canada," Mr. Rijniersce said. "People are more interested in becoming part of Canadian society, and nobody makes a big deal about their arrival."
________________________________________________________
Well Mr. Rijniersce, you haven't done your homework. It's not called Canuckistan for nothing. Sharia is legal and out west you may not have as many mosques sending out their blood curdling whines but they should be coming out there too in the not-too-distant future.

[Major_Risktaker]

'It just doesn't feel like Holland any more'

REALLY!

The war between capitalist, socialist,
atheist commies and the religious continue.

WOW! The bottom lines is the Muslims
pick up the population slack in the
Netherlands.
(+ 1 for the capitolist)

The Netherlands

LET'S LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!

357,655 fleeing home
726,000 abortion from 1970-2005
1,083,655 Dutch Missing.

.vs

945,000 Incoming Muslims:

Netherlands Islamic community to hit 1 million in 2006

AMSTERDAM — There were 945,000 Muslims living in the Netherlands on 1 January this year, double the amount in 1990, the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) said on Monday. The number is expected to reach 1 million in 2006.

________________________ ________________________

The Dutch are cowards.

(- one for the socialist)

OK we have 357,655 fleeing home and 726,000 abortion in the Netherlands from 1970-2005 which totals 1,083,655 Dutch.

357,655 Dutch born leaving FLEEING their country.

1995: 38,507 - 1996: 40,365 - 1997: 37,849
1998: 35,778 - 1999: 35,785 - 2000: 37,414
2001: 39,380 - 2002: 46,631 - 2003: 45,946
SOURCE: CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION CANADA, STATISTICS NETHERLANDS

________________________ ________________________

(- one for the religious)
(+ one for the atheist commies)

The Dutch are kill their own.

StiSAN is the Dutch umbrella organization of abortion clinics.

________________________ ________________________

The Dutch are killing others.

Dutch Women On Waves.
Women on Waves is looking for women who speak and write in Polish, Portuguese or Spanish.

The abortion ship Borndiep is trolling off the coast of Lisbon 2004 for a kill.

Question: Why don't Women On Waves sail into Alexandria, Egypt or better yet cities in the Persian Gulf?

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch floating abortion clinic banned from sailing abroad after controversial visits to Ireland and Poland pledged on Friday to take the Dutch government to court within weeks to lift the restriction.

Portuguese navy ship F486 "Baptista de Andrade" blocks the abortion ship "Borndiep" with RU486 on-board from entering the harbor of Figueira da Foz.

Link: Story at the bottom of the page.

________________________ ________________________

Grand Total: OK, what caused all of the killing in the 20th century?

Well, what can you say about a century that begins and ends with killing in Sarajevo? "Good riddance" springs to mind. Somewhere around 180 million people have been killed in one Twentieth Century atrocity or another -- a far larger total than for any other century in human history.

Overview of Twentieth Century Wars, Massacres and Atrocities:

________________________ ________________________

Bottom Line is the west is dying.
Becoming extinct because of these
organizations listed below.

Pro-Abortion Org's

THE WEST IS DYING
Overpopulation is largely a hoax

THE END!

[Porterville]

Yes we Hispanics are going to inter-marry with the white chicks.... are you scared?

[A. Pole]

Dutch deserve to have their country to be changed into another Muslim Kosovo for keeping Serbian leaders in Hague dungeon. Serves them RIGHT!

[Destro]

Ethnicity is not the problem - more multi-ethnic the better for the DNA gene pool - the issue is culture - a nation can thrive being multi-ethnic but it will come apart if it is multi-cultural. Americans need to get over the 18th century thinking in terms of race and skin color and in terms of culture.

[Destro]

Ethnicity is not the problem - more multi-ethnic the better for the DNA gene pool - the issue is culture - a nation can thrive being multi-ethnic but it will come apart if it is multi-cultural. Americans need to get over the 18th century thinking in terms of race and skin color and START THINKING in terms of culture.

[Porterville]

I just like messing with people that feel they have to take that approach in every subject.... Most legal Hispanics want tight borders- it is the communist judges and limp wrist politicians that won't step up. Fortunately we are America and not anywhere Europe.

[Destro]

Nothing to do with limp wrists or communists. The allowance of illegals is on purpose by our leaders because it creates a cheap labor pool for employers who need cheap manual (or is that Manuel) labor.

[Porterville]

I don't think are politicians are that hardened. I think they are more likely weak in the stomache- like whores. Whores can do things that most people think are impossible and tough. But in truth, their behavior reflects the level of deprivation their souls have sunk.

Politicians, like whores, are weak although they seem hard. Everyday they wake up, look in the mirror and say, "I wonder how many Johns I have to skank myself out to so I can keep my place?"

[Porterville]

are=our

[Destro]

I stand by my statement.

[stands2reason]

I'm sorry, but they're choosing Canada because we aren't "peaceful" and "tolerant" and socialist enough.

[Lancey Howard]

"As a society, we have always been very tolerant to people from other places -- for hundreds of years, this has been the case -- but we have become so tolerant that some groups are influencing society in such a way that it starts to become intolerant. People are fed up with this."

Um... okay.