This little
IMHO, she needs to meet....
Mr. Belt!
And it sounds like 'momma' needs to meet him too.
Posted on 04/23/2005 2:43:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
ST. PETERSBURG - What parent hasn't tried this trick on stubborn children: Tell them it's time to go, pretend you're leaving and hope they follow.
Two educators tried the tactic last month in the case of a 5-year-old girl at Fairmount Park Elementary. Twice it failed.
The pair used a range of other strategies in an hourlong ordeal, about 30 minutes of which were caught on a videotape released this week by a lawyer for the girl's mother. Some of their "interventions" appeared to work, others did not.
Although administrators and many teachers are trained in dealing with misbehaving children, educators say they have no sure formula for success, especially in such an extreme case.
At Fairmount Park on March 14, the girl swung several times at assistant principal Nicole Dibenedetto and teacher Patti Tsaousis. She created a mess wherever she went and generally refused to cooperate. She eventually was handcuffed by St. Petersburg police, who were called to the school.
"She's a little girl who wants to be in control," Carol Thomas, an assistant superintendent in charge of Pinellas elementary schools, said while viewing the video this week. "It was very deliberate behavior.
Lynette Fields, a professor at the University of South Florida's College of Education, called it "a very trying situation in the real world."
Thomas said Dibenedetto and Tsaousis handled the case admirably, setting limits for the girl but also giving her options and praising the positive decisions she made amid the bad ones. Thomas also offered suggestions for what else might have been tried.
Instead of counting to five out loud, as Dibenedetto did to coax the girl to act, Thomas said she might have counted in her head to give the girl more leeway.
Another alternative: ignoring the child.
But Thomas said that strategy is risky because it requires an unbending commitment. If you give up on it to prevent a child from getting hurt, it results in "intermittent reinforcement," Thomas said, which only strengthens bad behavior.
Fields said it appeared Dibenedetto and Tsaousis took a page from the philosophy espoused in the book, Parenting with Love and Logic, which gave rise to the Love and Logic Institute.
The Love and Logic philosophy discourages the "drill sergeant" and "helicopter" styles of parenting. The first one commands and directs children, the latter hovers and rescues them from mistakes.
The Love and Logic style encourages children to talk about their feelings, make their own decisions and complete required tasks within loose "time frames."
It is a philosophy that surely grates on those who said during the robust public discussion following the videotape's release that the girl was in need of corporal punishment.
In letters to the St. Petersburg Times, on Internet postings and in talk radio debates, many expressed outrage Friday that the educators at Fairmount Park seemed hamstrung by concerns about touching the girl or being too stern.
Among the dynamics at work that day: two school staffers were forced to focus exclusively on the girl during dismissal, one of the busiest and most stressful times of the day; the girl's behavior had prompted the school to call city police a few days earlier, and the mother had complained.
District officials said that in the future Pinellas schools police should be notified because they are accustomed to dealing with students.
Florida law still allows corporal punishment but leaves the decision to school districts. Many districts abandoned the practice years ago because of liability concerns, Fields said. Pinellas is one of them.
Even the law that allows corporal punishment is fraught with caution. An educator may administer it only with another adult present. That adult must be told - in the presence of the student - of the reason for the punishment. Parents can request a written explanation.
Pinellas educators are told they may use "reasonable force" to protect themselves, a student or anyone else from harm. But, in practice, that translates to a simpler rule of thumb: no touching at all.
"That's a good rule for anyone to follow when dealing with somebody else's children," Fields said.
Pinellas elementary schools reported 406 disciplinary referrals for batteries on adults last school year, up from 272 the year before. Many are repeat offenses from a smaller group of children who chronically misbehave.
"Some schools call them "frequent fliers,' " said Bob Poth, principal of Douglas L. Jamerson Jr. Elementary.
"The bottom line is that if a child is misbehaving, learning is not taking place," Poth said. "We only have 180 days with the kids. We can't afford to have them fooling around."
Times staff writer Donna Winchester contributed to this report.
How about just shoving the child out the front door and locking it so she can't get back in?
####
That's about the only thing the law allows! Or would that be illegal too?
Another case of police being called for out of control children was in the news this week. A mother called 911 to request police aid in calming down her children. The officer who took the call made a smart remark to the mother for which he may lose his job.
During a talk show discussing this incident (I think it may have been O"Reilly) a child behavior 'expert' said the mother did the right thing in calling the police "because she felt threatened."
I think our police and our schoolteachers are placed in terrible situations these days, because there are no "rules" left that seem to have common agreement. So teachers and police are Wrong no matter what they do.
Here's one who never did. Never, ever, ever would I want her to think I would just abandon her somewhere.
A blivet= 10 lbs. of sh*t in a 3 pound sack?
The parents over the past year and a half have slowly come to realize some of these truths on their own without us having to make any comments. We limit ourselves to excuses like "it's dinner time or they have to study", which is true a lot of the time because my wife spends about an hour and a half reinforcing the children's education every day.
Originally the neighbors thought their child was "bored" with school because he was "gifted". They were crushed as every special school they applied for rejected him because of his lack of focus and discipline. I can tell you that the child does not have any apparent setbacks as far as intelligence. IMHO, he more likely seems to be a victim of the lack of any reinforcing discipline, or he is truly a real-life case of ADS (which I believe may also be another label for "active, healthy boy", but in his case I would consider the alternative.)
I think the bright side is that he is a sweet child, angelic face and all that. Yet when we first came to know him, we had allowed him to play with the children in our home. He proceeded to wreak havoc by trashing the room, climbing up on furniture and one time I caught him just before he jumped off a dresser onto my son. My son was unaware of this at the time, yet also he was in such a position where the only likely place for our "guest" to land was his neck. Only God could have sent me there at that moment.
We have by now instructed our children on how to behave with the child. They are taught to treat him as you would a dog that you're not sure will bite you. it's the safest thing for them. The child has hurt two other children in the neighborhood and really doesn't have anyone to play with now, which is sad, but no one is willing to risk their child's safety around him.
I'm rambling, but in the end we have a child who seems quite intelligent, but has not basic idea of how to safely interact with other children. What kind of future is he going to have? He's basically experiencing self-imposed exile from society right now.
Our neighbors are having another child now. I pray for the little one's safety, I don't think this is going to be pretty.
In fact I think you are closer that the definition we used to use, which was 10 lbs in a 5 lb sack.
They must be making the sacks stronger. ;)
That is the key many are unable, or refuse to look at. ;)
You're not exaggerating. According to some theoreticians, you have to be in a majority (with power to oppress) in order to be considered a racist. Really.
There are really no bad children just bad parents. This girl's mom should be brought up on child abuse charges. The bible has a lot to say about not guiding a child in the way she should go. This is tragic and unfortunately the psychiatrist brought up race on tv so now that's all people will talk about. The mom won't ever have to explain being a bad parent.
Nothing would make me happier than to see you the parent of that spoiled brat.
I saw this video last night. The child was completely out of control, screaming fighting, hitting the teacher, advancing on her as the teacher backed up. The teacher needed help. Someone strong needed to get a grip on this kid. Handcuffs sound like they went over board but the child had to be restrained in some fashion. A small straight jacket comes to mind. I'm glad she isn't my kid.
IMHO, she needs to meet....
And it sounds like 'momma' needs to meet him too.
OMG I can't believe I just read that.
You are taking my statement out of context of the rest of my post.
You started your post off with that statement. What am I missing?
Major major LOL!
Read the whole post. There are children born with severe psychological disturbances but they're rare. I'm talking about the majority who are bad because of bad parenting. Pleaase read the whole post. Thanks.
Having raised two boys on my own, if one of my kids had acted this way, I would have been sooooo embarrassed. I'd be apologizing profusely to the school and then kicking the kid's ass once I got him home. Nobody should have to tolerate behavior like this, especially not from a child. In the good old days, kids knew better than to act out for fear you'd be smacked and humiliated in front of the rest of the class. In this case, the kid's parents are the ones who should be handcuffed because they are cheating this kid by not providing proper discipline at home. One only has to look at her behavior in the classroom to know she displays such behavior at home. The kid definitely needs her bottom smacked, but she also needs to be confined to her room and her favorite toys, etc. denied her until she can show some respect for property and other people. If allowed to go on, she's going to end up having problems with the law.
The brat should be taken to the local jail or prison and shown what her behavior could lead her to.
amen... she really needs to be homeschooled.
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