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Pope May Color Debate in U.S. Over 'Life' Issues Like Abortion
NY Times ^ | April 21, 2005 | ROBIN TONER

Posted on 04/20/2005 8:13:14 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: neverdem
He's known as very much in line with the doctrine of the church and a strong enforcer of that doctrine."

Maybe we should call him "the Hammer".

41 posted on 04/20/2005 9:26:36 PM PDT by Defiant (Amend the Constitution to nullify all decisions not founded on original intent.)
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To: MHGinTN

Patrick Leahy, a prominent Catholic!!!! OMG! PROMINENT???


42 posted on 04/20/2005 9:32:24 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: McGavin999
The club? THE CLUB!?!

Catholic Liberal Universal Brotherhood - C. L. U. B.

43 posted on 04/20/2005 9:33:17 PM PDT by reg45
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To: McGavin999
The club? THE CLUB!?!

Well, heck yes -- that's all Catholicism is to them -- a club, membership in which can get you a few votes here or there, as long as you're not too "selective" about actually believing in anything.

44 posted on 04/20/2005 9:33:19 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: Ann Archy

Kind of like Satan is a prominent angel, don'tchaknow!


45 posted on 04/20/2005 9:34:06 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Howlin
"You say to the bishops, look, I respect you, I want to stay in the club, I try to live by your rules, but let's not be selective."

That quote is just SO rich!

And the bish says back: "Yes, Mario, LET'S NOT BE SELECTIVE in what rules you at least try to live by!"

46 posted on 04/20/2005 9:34:33 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: neverdem

Leahy, Kennedy, Kerry, McAwful and co. are all pro-choice.

They have a choice: they can believe in the teachings of the Church OR they can get their miserable asses out the door!

I'm sooooo sick of Dems posing as Catholics. It's sickening.


47 posted on 04/20/2005 9:35:38 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (Hillary for President? She wants to be Pope!!!!)
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To: neverdem
Because of their extreme stance on significant moral issues (primarily but not only abortion) I see no way that a Catholic can, in good conscience, be a member of or vote for a Democrat.

Regarding John-Paul II's statement on the death penalty that the death penalty is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady improvement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are rare, if not practically nonexistent." I don't see how a claim about the state of the penal system is a statement regarding faith or morals. The efficacy of the penal system, is outside of the teaching authority of the Church.
48 posted on 04/20/2005 9:36:33 PM PDT by etlib (No creature without tentacles has ever developed true intelligence)
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To: RobbyS

One has to ask oneself who is best served by aborting millions of future productive citizens and soldiers of this nation, and why would organizations or other nations willingly support such actions?


Whatever it takes to destroy this grand experiment we have had for nigh on 230 years,, the cost is inconsequential to our enemies, both foreign and from within.


49 posted on 04/20/2005 9:37:33 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...... The War on Terrorism is the ultimate 'faith-based' initiative.)
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To: Samwise

LOL!


50 posted on 04/20/2005 9:49:21 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
"Senator Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont and prominent Catholic, agreed: 'American bishops always have been involved in politics and been very selective. If you are a Republican who is for the death penalty, that is O.K., but if you are a Democrat for choice, that is not O.K.'"

This is such a revealing comment from Leahy. For crying out loud, I'm a Jew and even I understand Catholic teaching better than Leahy does.

The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty on essentially practical grounds: Life should only be taken when there is no other workable alternative, and in the Church's view, there are workable deterrents short of the death penalty. Support or opposition to the death penalty, just like support or opposition to a war, is thus a matter of judgment and discernment; as long as your opinion is properly grounded on a moral bedrock that acknowledges life as sacred, you can disagree with the official judgment of the Church.

The context of abortion in American politics, however, has moved far beyond this sort of practicality. If we were debating when precisely it's acceptable to let a baby die to save the life of the mother, the matter would be comparable to the death penalty. Catholic teaching is that the doctor must at all times try to save both lives. If pro-abortion American Catholics agreed with this basic teaching, and were merely debating the practical question of when it's tolerable for a doctor to accept defeat and focus his limited resources on saving just one life or the other, that would be a legitimate area to dissent from the official judgment of the Church. But we're way, way beyond that point—pro-abortion Catholics make the baby's entire right to life subject to the whim of the mother. That's not a judgment question, that's rejection of basic moral doctrine of the Church. There's a word for people who do that, and it's called "Protestants." Leahy should just become Episcopalian and stop worrying about what Catholic bishops think of his politics.

51 posted on 04/20/2005 9:54:02 PM PDT by Fabozz
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To: Fabozz

hey, hey, hey; Don't come down hard on ALL protestants: I for one am a born-again protestant and I love your new Pope: Congratualtions ;)!


52 posted on 04/20/2005 10:34:01 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: NormsRevenge

There are those even :on" our side" who think that a declining population is OK. Fact is that the shrinking of any gene-pool is an invitation to extinction. We are dependent not only on the labor of Mexicans but the fruit of their loins.


53 posted on 04/20/2005 10:40:38 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: Fabozz

Leahy and the democraps depend on the votes of fellow CINO's to get elected! Must keep up the sham of 'being a Catholic' while serving Satan for the empowerment.


54 posted on 04/20/2005 10:42:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: RobbyS

I have heard that as well, that a diverse population is one more likely to survive.


55 posted on 04/20/2005 10:43:15 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...... The War on Terrorism is the ultimate 'faith-based' initiative.)
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To: Fabozz

Sehr Gut! But Leahy needs to be joined by the priests who mistaught him, who never told him as you have so eloquently done the authetic teachings of the Church.


56 posted on 04/20/2005 10:44:29 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: neverdem
But the Rev. Richard McBrien, a liberal theologian at Notre Dame, said in an interview conducted by e-mail that he wondered how much the new pope understood the more liberal strain of American Catholicism represented by leaders like Mr. Kerry or Mr. Cuomo. "I doubt if he understands it as well as he should, but then, whom does he speak with who might enlighten him, without giving a conservative spin to the explanation?" Father McBrien asked.

Benedict XVI understands it durn well: relativism.

57 posted on 04/20/2005 10:47:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: NormsRevenge

I think they used to call it racial invigorization. No accident that the leaders of both indian and African communities are, so often, men of mixed race.


58 posted on 04/20/2005 10:47:23 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: Fabozz
There's a word for people who do that, and it's called "Protestants."

Both Luther and Calvin would have lined up far closer to this new pope than they would have to the mainline protestants of today.

59 posted on 04/20/2005 10:49:36 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: Fabozz
Wise words are always worth repeating:

If we were debating when precisely it's acceptable to let a baby die to save the life of the mother, the matter would be comparable to the death penalty. Catholic teaching is that the doctor must at all times try to save both lives. If pro-abortion American Catholics agreed with this basic teaching, and were merely debating the practical question of when it's tolerable for a doctor to accept defeat and focus his limited resources on saving just one life or the other, that would be a legitimate area to dissent from the official judgment of the Church. But we're way, way beyond that point—pro-abortion Catholics make the baby's entire right to life subject to the whim of the mother. That's not a judgment question, that's rejection of basic moral doctrine of the Church.

60 posted on 04/20/2005 10:50:33 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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