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Persecuted Christians (Ratzinger, Nov 2004)
telegraph ^ | 11/4/04 | telegraph

Posted on 04/19/2005 11:11:50 AM PDT by Mark Felton

Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is perhaps the only man alive of whom it might be said that he is more Catholic than the Pope. Even though his enemies caricature him as the most bigoted of grand inquisitors, he knows John Paul II like nobody else. Among the college of cardinals, he is one of the few likely successors who is the ailing pontiff's intellectual equal. His long interview in yesterday's La Repubblica is thus an authentic reflection of the consensus inside the Vatican. It makes for disturbing reading.

The cardinal sees Europe as a continent in the grip of a demographic and spiritual crisis. A falling birthrate is "altering the ethnic composition of Europe", as Muslim immigration transforms the ancient heartlands of Christendom. Churches are emptying as Christian culture is threatened by an "aggressive secularism, even an intolerant one". This new secularism is no longer neutral, but hostile to public manifestations of Christianity, which is being marginalised and privatised. "We must defend religious freedom against the imposition of an ideology that is being presented as if it were the only voice of rationality, whereas it is only the expression of a narrow rationalism."

The incident that occasioned such anguish is the case of Rocco Buttiglione, who was dropped from the European Commission merely for refusing to deny his Catholicism, in the private rather than the public sphere. For Cardinal Ratzinger, the implication is that anybody who defends Christian orthodoxy is now excluded from public life. He cites the example of a Protestant pastor in Sweden who was imprisoned for a month for preaching against homosexuality. Christianity has come full circle since the days of its persecution under the Roman Empire: an established Church no longer, it is now once again a persecuted band of the faithful.

If the Cardinal's grim diagnosis is accurate, then the logic of the Christian predicament points towards ecumenical unity. The Vatican has sometimes spoken as if non-Catholic churches were mere sects. Yet the fastest-growing forms of Christianity are the evangelical movements emanating from America. The Catholic Church cannot lead the "struggle" against secularism unless its leaders can acknowledge the sufferings and merits of their fellow Christians. If Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope, it is safe to assume that the reconversion of Europe would be his aim. But is this guardian of Vatican orthodoxy ready to consider compromise on matters of doctrine for the sake of a united Christian front against secularism and jihad? It is an enticing prospect.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: benedict; benedictxvi; christianpersecution; christians; persecution; pope; ratzinger; secularism
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To: Mark Felton
Cardinal Ratzinger will be energetic (far more so than Pope John Paul) in confronting the enemies of Christianity.

The onyl thing I faulted John Paul II for was his unfortunate silence on the murderous war on Christians by Islam across the globe. I cringed as he declared Islam a "great religion" while saying nothing on the slaughters in Africa and Asia. Hopefully Benedict will take on the Muslim vermin head-on as the lethal threat they are.

81 posted on 04/19/2005 5:59:05 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Zap Brannigan; NYer; Kolokotronis
I fail to understand why many of my fellow protestant Freepers are so high on this guy. Apparently, he views us as heretics.

well, Zap, how do I put htis nicely. I respect your views and your right to believe what you want to. However, by the strictest definition of a Church heresy, the Protestant groups ARE heretical. The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Churchs that are not in communion with the Catholic church are NOT heretical, they are in separation with the Catholic Church but are held to be Apostolic Churchs (with whom we disagree on certain issues!). for that reason we are in communion with them and EOs can celebrate mass with us. However, the Protestant churchs are NOT in communion with us. We can reach out to you, listen to your beliefs and respect them, but you would still be considered heretical.

In a document in 2000, he branded other Christian churches as deficient -- shocking Anglicans, Lutherans and other Protestants in ecumenical dialogue with Rome for years.

I must agree with Ratzinger on this -- the Anglicans, Lutherans and Presbyterians have mostly sold out to modernity.
82 posted on 04/19/2005 6:01:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Zap Brannigan; NYer; Kolokotronis
I fail to understand why many of my fellow protestant Freepers are so high on this guy. Apparently, he views us as heretics.

well, Zap, how do I put htis nicely. I respect your views and your right to believe what you want to. However, by the strictest definition of a Church heresy, the Protestant groups ARE heretical. The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Churchs that are not in communion with the Catholic church are NOT heretical, they are in separation with the Catholic Church but are held to be Apostolic Churchs (with whom we disagree on certain issues!). for that reason we are in communion with them and EOs can celebrate mass with us. However, the Protestant churchs are NOT in communion with us. We can reach out to you, listen to your beliefs and respect them, but you would still be considered heretical. I, personally would still consider you Christians and perhaps even, very strong Christians

In a document in 2000, he branded other Christian churches as deficient -- shocking Anglicans, Lutherans and other Protestants in ecumenical dialogue with Rome for years.

I must agree with Ratzinger on this -- the Anglicans, Lutherans and Presbyterian CHURCHS have mostly sold out to modernity. THere are still many good people, good Christians in those churchs though.
83 posted on 04/19/2005 6:03:02 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: ConservativeDude
V II formally admitted that we Protestants can be saved....I guess I am grateful, whatever. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. But when discussing these matters precision of language is important and Prots are not deemed heretics by the RCC.

I do humbly disagree with you. Yes, the Church says that Protestants can be saved. However, the Protestant churchs are still heretical -- by the very definition of the word. We can't change that. We can respect each other's beliefs (up to a certain extent, I would never accept the ECUSA's teachings on Gene Robinson: "Jesus was gay" etc.)
84 posted on 04/19/2005 6:08:56 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: ModelBreaker

Yup -- got to point out. In the UK, the only churchs that are flourishing (filled to the brim each Sunday and with young people and families too, not just over 70 year olds) are the Catholic and Baptist churchs.


85 posted on 04/19/2005 6:13:09 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: Cronos

"The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Churchs that are not in communion with the Catholic church are NOT heretical, they are in separation with the Catholic Church but are held to be Apostolic Churchs (with whom we disagree on certain issues!). for that reason we are in communion with them and EOs can celebrate mass with us."

Just to be clear about this, Orthodoxy is not in communion with Rome in the sense that we believe the exact same things. We don't nor does Orthodoxy accept the universal jurisdiction of the pope nor the doctrine of papal infallibility. That said, Rome, the Eastern Rite Churches in communion with Rome and Orthodoxy are viewed by Rome as all being "particular churches", to use His Holiness' words in The Church.

"...Protestant churchs...."

Ecclesial Assemblies, again to use His Holiness' words.


86 posted on 04/19/2005 6:14:03 PM PDT by Kolokotronis ("Set a guard over my mouth, O Lord; keep watch over the door of my lips!" (Psalm 141:3))
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To: henkster

CBS News: Rottweiler, Grand Inquisitor, Suppressor of Dissent.


87 posted on 04/19/2005 6:15:01 PM PDT by johnb838 (Viva Benedict XVI!!! Knot together a whip from cords.)
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To: Kolokotronis

Thanks for the correction.


88 posted on 04/19/2005 6:26:16 PM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: TomasUSMC

BTTT!


89 posted on 04/19/2005 6:27:00 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Cronos

You're welcome!


90 posted on 04/19/2005 6:28:11 PM PDT by Kolokotronis ("Set a guard over my mouth, O Lord; keep watch over the door of my lips!" (Psalm 141:3))
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To: Cronos

I do not think that is the position of Vatican II. There are still categories of thought which are clearly heresy...they are essentially non-Christian. There are also categories which are deemed to be deficient. Some reputable Catholic theologians, for example, Karl Rahner, are even on record as stating that sola fide, sola gratia and sola scriptura are essentially correct, though obviously he doesn't think the way it played out is helpful.

I think you are equating error with heresy. Unless you show me chapter and verse from a document put out by the Magisterium, I am going to have to stand firm in my understanding that since VII the RCC does not consider Protestantism to be heresy; deficient yes, but not heresy.


Incidentally, I don't actually care much as to whether or not we respect either other's beliefs. I do care about social action and I do care about theological accuracy.


91 posted on 04/19/2005 7:00:01 PM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Mark Felton

Well said. Politicians across the Western world have fallen prey to moral and cultural relativism, thus demonstrating the tragic shortcoming of democracy. The Church must return to its historical role as the defender and preserver of Western values, as it did after the fall of the Roman Empire. Tough times are ahead. But through faith, strength, and love, it will prevail for the benefit of humanity.


92 posted on 04/19/2005 7:15:31 PM PDT by ValenB4 (Viva il Papa, Benedict XVI)
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To: Mark Felton
The cardinal sees Europe as a continent in the grip of a demographic and spiritual crisis. A falling birthrate is "altering the ethnic composition of Europe", as Muslim immigration transforms the ancient heartlands of Christendom. Churches are emptying as Christian culture is threatened by an "aggressive secularism, even an intolerant one". This new secularism is no longer neutral, but hostile to public manifestations of Christianity, which is being marginalised and privatised. "We must defend religious freedom against the imposition of an ideology that is being presented as if it were the only voice of rationality, whereas it is only the expression of a narrow rationalism."

Pope Benedict XVI should be made an honorary member of Free Republic.

93 posted on 04/19/2005 7:17:10 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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To: henkster
My fear is that at 78, the Lord will not grant him the time or productive capacity to get the job done.

I think the average papal reign is something like 8-10 years. I haven't heard anything about him having health problems. So he will probably serve the expected amount of time. 26 year reigns are the exception not the rule.

No one leaves this world with all of their work complete. It is always up to others to carry on. And they will.

94 posted on 04/19/2005 7:25:04 PM PDT by ValenB4 (Viva il Papa, Benedict XVI)
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: ConservativeDude
I do care about social action and I do care about theological accuracy.

I won't debate about the latter on this post as I don't think its in line with the message of the post. however, on the former, I agree with you whole-heartedly that we should all -- Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox etc. chip in for social action and at that time, to help others, creed doesn't matter.
97 posted on 04/20/2005 12:16:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: lepton

As a sort of ex-Catholic (one foot in, one foot out) I have issues with some things the RCC seems to espouse. However, it saddens me when people say Catholics are not Christians. And I hear it all the time. They may be mistaken (as probably all denominations are about some things) but about the central tenant that makes one a Christian, they are right. Jesus is our salvation, and we must believe in Him and commit to follow Him. Other than that, it's all window dressing.
Imagine what we could do if all Christian denominations stood together instead of fighting for the right to say they are the best Christians!
susie


98 posted on 04/20/2005 7:49:29 AM PDT by brytlea (Yes, there are Republican teachers...)
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To: RegulatorCountry

I think that would be stretching things to try to tie this benedict to the previous Benedict in order to make the prophecy "fit". Besides I was making kind of a word play...you know spiritual "Popeye" vs a weak "Olive" as in "Olive Oil". . This particular Benedict sounds like he has been eating his "spiritual Spinach"!


99 posted on 04/20/2005 10:44:07 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6

Peace... peace... peace. There has always been great end-times prophetic significance to that, which is also associated with Benedict, the Benedictine Order or Olivetans and the Mount of Olives as well. Whether consciously or not, I believe they're trying to adhere to the "prophecy." Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here, from a position of a sort of "prophesy geek." who enjoys reading and even collecting such things from a variety of sources, rather than from the standpoint of a hardline true believer.

There are those who decried the "Road Map" peace process as the biblical "Covenant with Death" also, so expect to hear more about this going forward. People do latch on to such things.


100 posted on 04/20/2005 11:24:06 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry (Esse Quam Videre)
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