Israelis lining up for Polish citizenship

The Washington Times ^ | April 18, 2005 | Joshua Mitnick

[lizol]

Israelis lining up for Polish citizenship

By Joshua Mitnick THE WASHINGTON TIMES

TEL AVIV -- Nestled in a quiet residential neighborhood, the Polish Embassy building has become a site of pilgrimage for a growing tide of Israelis who are seeking to reclaim what under Polish law is their birthright.

Almost a year after Poland became part of the European Union last May, thousands of Israelis are eyeing the homeland of their parents and grandparents as a ticket to sharing in the prosperity of the new Europe.

Some just want the convenience of traveling on the Continent as an EU citizen. But others covet the economic and legal benefits to help them build careers and businesses.

For students, it could mean free tuition at internationally recognized universities. For businesspeople, citizenship means valuable access to a foreign market.

Polish Jewish immigrants streamed to Palestine before and after World War II, and more than 1 million Israelis could be eligible for Polish citizenship. But the bureaucracy is onerous.

[lizol]

I don't agree with everything Grzegorz wrote here.

But don't you think that it's really annoying, that a person who says about Poland and Poles something like "I am embarrassed that I need to ask for something like this," (...) "I've never been back. I know them, and they were worse than the Germans." is supposed to get Polish citizenship?

I know - even from discussions here on FR - that among Jews there is a stereotype of an anti-semitist Pole. I can't help it. But I didn't even know - until now - that we were even worse than the Germans." That's really something new to me. Refreshing and very telling.

[lizol]

Does the following fragment reminds you of anything?

Nevertheless, anti-semitism and the idiots who profess it, are almost everywhere. Moscow, Chicago and all places.

Why just last week in South Florida of all places, a friend of mine and his wife, who happen to be Jewish had obsenities yelled at him and his wife when they were leaving Temple. It was a bunch of apparently drunk teens. Shocking and very sad. But, this junk happens all over the place. There is no excuse for it, but darn it it just goes on and on just like racism.

Moscow like any big city is going to have jerks and pinheads and dangerous loonies... just like Chicago, L.A. or Miami, USA.

THE POINT IS: RACISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM EXIST... BUT NOT MORE SO IN MOSCOW THAN ANYPLACE ELSE....PARIS and LONDON ARE RIDDLED WITH IT... and Marsailles and Lyon and Berlin and in Stuttgartt... on and on....


If it doesn't - I'll help you. It's a quote from your post #2 from thread: Moscow Most Anti-Semitic Place in Russia — HR Organization

Funny thing, because if somethig relates to Russia (in this case Russian anti-semitism) you state with passion: "RACISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM EXIST... BUT NOT MORE SO IN MOSCOW THAN ANYPLACE ELSE"

But when it comes to Poland - you say "From the comments by some of the Iraelis in this article, they too may have experienced that sort of brutal treatment OR WORSE in Poland." - without such a comment. I suppose these capital letters in "OR WORSE" are yours

Some bias?

[dervish]

Absolutely. If the original criticism was -- these people hate Poland they should not be allowed to use us to gain EU benefits -- the criticism would have validity.

As to the anti-Semitism of Poles during WWII, I have to believe that the man who expressed the sentiment that the Poles were "worse than the Germans" experienced it as such. But his opinion is anecdotal and not scientific. While it may offend innocent Poles, I'm sure the appropriate response is not "this man is scum."

[dervish]

Your original response, by your own admission before you even read the part comparing Polish to German behavior, was inappropriate:

"I wonder If they at least know a few words in Polish..."

Here's a tip. Many new citizens know very little of the language. They are usually new immigrants.

And since I've heard you deride Polish Jews before WWII as not being real Poles because they did not speak Polish, I saw you continuing in that vein.

"Learn some history, dude. Most of them were Russian citizens, who after 1918 were forced (Polish antisemitism I guess) to become Polish citizens."

Ah, so you acknowledge they were Polish citizens. Also I am tired of your derisive generalizations about Jews in Poland. Here's the litany -- they weren't Poles because they were in their own Jewish community and not part of Polish culture, didn't speak Polish, were Communists who betrayed/killed real Poles, they are after our money and citizenship with their victimology, if they aren't after our money they are after Iraq's money, Israel needs Polish help to avoid being driven into the sea.

If you had addressed the hypocrisy of seeking citizenship in a place you profess to hate, I would have to agree.

"First of all only in Iraq we spent more than we ever got in military aid from US government, through NATO or directly, besides I'm sure that my uncles, cousins and other relatives, who live in US wouldn't be angry If a large part of their taxes wasn't spent on aid for Israel anymore."

You are the one who needs to learn some facts. Aid to Israel is dwarfed by aid to NATO. Further in the ME the US has strategic interests. What does it have in Europe for the last ten years, art?

[lizol]

I'm sure the appropriate response is not "this man is scum.

Me too, that's why I wrote, that I didn't agree with everything Grzegorz had writen.
He was right at many points, but expressed his views not in a way I would do.

As to the problem of Poles being allegedly worse than Germans during Holocaust - you see, dervish - such an opinion is something absolutely beyond my comprehension. Even if I agreed with your views expressed in our past discussion about Poland's responsibility for Holocaust (but I don't).

Btw.
Today I read an interview with Efraim Zuroff - the head of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre (based in Jerusalem). The interview was related to a telephone hotline dedicated to hunting down Holocaust war criminals (more about it this hotline here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3813415.stm).
He was talking about results of this action.
Let me quote a fragment (sorry for my poor translation)

Question: How it is in Poland?

Answer: There is a political will to clear up cases, however it's smaller than in Germany. We've got about 20 informations. Mainly relating to denouncing Jews, but there happen to be also informations that someone committed a murder himself (...)

Question: Whos denouncing, who's reporting?

Answer: Neighbours, acquaintances, someone who heard about a case. In two months we'll be able to say which reports are true. Poland differs from Baltic states. In your country cases of collaboration happened quite rarely, whereas over there (in Baltics) civilian population was a part of criminal system. From Lithuania we've got the biggesst number of reports - 198 persons.

Mr Zuroff is a scholar, specialists on that issue, so I think he knows what he's saying

This is the link for this interview (unfortunately in Polish only)
http://www.rzeczpospolita.pl/gazeta/wydanie_050419/publicystyka/publicystyka_a_4.html?k=on;t=2005041920050419

[Grzegorz 246]

Yawn.

[Grzegorz 246]

I almost missed this part.

"You are the one who needs to learn some facts. Aid to Israel is dwarfed by aid to NATO."

So could you educate me and provide exact numbers ?

[Grzegorz 246]

?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Poland will be the Israel of Europe, needed to counter the advance of Islam.

[lizol]

What do you mean?