[adiaireton8]

The Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture either. Nor is the hypostatic union. Nor is homoousious. Lots of theology is not mentioned in Scripture, but is implied by it, in some way or other. Of course Mary is not God in the flesh. But the reason why Mary is said to be sinless is because of the organic connection between Mary and Jesus. Jesus was literally (though not exhaustively, of course) flesh of Mary. But purity cannot come from impurity. Sinlessness cannot come from sinfulness. Mary was purified (by the grace of God) in order to be the Christo-tokos (i.e. Christ-bearer), and even the theo-tokos (God-bearer). Otherwise, Christ would have received from Mary the sinful nature that has been received by us all through Adam.

-A8

[MEGoody]

"But purity cannot come from impurity."

So how far back does this sinless line go? After all, Mary can't be sinless unless her mother was sinless. And her mother couldn't have been sinless unless Mary's grandmother was sinless. And so on and so on. So who was the first sinless woman?

[Tao Yin]

Your arguement about Mary needing to be sinless sounds like the human mind struggling to understand God; placing limits on God. This same type of reasoning resulting in Arian Heresy.

Arius reasoned that since Jesus was begotten, he must have had a beginning, associating the word (begotten) generation, to be = with creation.

This heresy resulted in the Sola Scriptura Council of Nicene in 325.

The books of the Bible were either written by the apostles or approved of by the apostles.

What is the standard for this belief about Mary? Can it be traced to the apostles?

In 1854, Pope Pius IX declared that Mary was freed from original sin by a special act of grace the moment she was conceived in the womb of Saint Anne. (Ineffabilis Deus)

There are three possibilities:
1) this is an apostolic tradition handed down through the ages
2) Pope Pius IX had a special revelation
3) Pope Pius IX made it up by building on past church actions and statements

Reading his decree in 1854, the answer is most definately number 3.

He ends his decree with ...

Hence, if anyone shall dare--which God forbid!--to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should are to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart.

Simply amazing. The pope decides there was a special act of grace (never mentioned before) and it automatically happens, I mean happened. Pope Pius IX never said the apostles believed in the special act of grace. Pope Pius IX never said he had a special revelation. Pope Pius IX simply stated the church believed this and that, so therefore there was a special act of grace. He made it up! Is God limited by our limited minds? God works in ways we can not comprehend. There is not always a rational explanation.

You might say that since Pope Pius IX is Pope he had the keys and was able to bind and loose. So either Pope Pius IX decided how God was to handle Jesus' birth (over 1800 years before Pope Pius IX was born) or Pope Pius IX changed history by his decree (insert weird SciFi reasoning of cause and effect) or Pope Pius IX is a fallible man.

Simple amazing.

[Elsie]

But purity cannot come from impurity. Sinlessness cannot come from sinfulness. Mary was purified (by the grace of God) in order to be the Christo-tokos (i.e. Christ-bearer), and even the theo-tokos (God-bearer). Otherwise, Christ would have received from Mary the sinful nature that has been received by us all through Adam.

 

(didja ever boil water??)

 

Seems like there's a lot of ASSUMIN' goin' on here!!!!