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CA: New system will feed state's electricity needs ~~ $20B transmission facility ..Wyoming
Orange County Register ^ | Tuesday, April 5, 2005 | Reuters

Posted on 04/05/2005 12:13:10 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Tuesday, April 5, 2005

New system will feed state's electricity needs


Four governors, including Schwarzenegger, agree to build $20 billion transmission facility and lines.

Reuters

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the governors of Nevada, Utah and Wyoming have agreed to build an estimated $20 billion electricity transmission system to meet rising demand for power, Wyoming's governor said Monday.

Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal said on a conference call the "Frontier Line" system would supply electricity-hungry California - where power demand is growing at about 4 percent annually, or double the national average - with power from nearby energy-producing states.

Fast-growing Las Vegas and Salt Lake City also would be served by the system, which is expected to need up to $5 billion in transmission lines and facilities and up to $15 billion in power plants.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Montana; US: Nevada; US: Utah; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: calpowercrisis; energy
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To: kellynla
Fact! Based on studies published in Scientific American in 1991 and updated in 1996, (because of technology advances), The Plains States, from Texas to North Dakota can produce 250% of the electricity needs of the Continental US.

Build the 4 Million Windmills mentioned at that time and you would have, as cheap, Kyoto friendly, power generation. Finance it with the Social Security Surplus and we could produce a real cash flow to the Social Security accounts instead of the T-Bills that Uncle uses to borrow the excess Social Security funds to finance on-going government operations.

Wind power is a

WIN(d) WIN(d)

21 posted on 04/05/2005 6:12:52 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Dog Gone
Since California needs more power and has this phobia about building power plants within the state

Yeah. So we export our problems to other states. Just great.

So the American West has to have smoke plumes across it to provide power for...millions of Mexico's poor in Los Angeles. Wonder who's gonna pay the bill.

Makes all the sense in the world to me. Right. Not.

If California liberals insist on letting the entire Third World live here, then let them deal with the consequences. Build the power plants in Santa Fe Springs or Southgate, the Belly of the Beast. Better yet, West Hollywood or Topanga. You want cheap Third World labor by the millions? Live with the problems. Streisand should have a coal burning plant just upwind from her.

And while I'm on the subject of "people who don't like to live with the problems they cause", why is it that the state that probably has the highest per capita gas consumption on the planet still refuses to let anyone drill off its coastline?

California: Land of Whining Children.

22 posted on 04/05/2005 6:13:48 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: Regulator

California needs to build more nukes. Instead, they're the only state that I know of that closed units down prematurely purely for political reasons.


23 posted on 04/05/2005 6:35:56 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Young Werther

well thanks for the info, Jack! LOL

seriously though, I appreciate the input...it was your initial post that I found less than polite.

have a good one!


24 posted on 04/05/2005 6:42:47 PM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Young Werther

btw, if you can give me the links for the studies you reference it would be appreciated!


25 posted on 04/05/2005 6:43:58 PM PDT by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Dog Gone
California needs to build more nukes

You know what's hilarious? For all the huffing and puffing here about nukes, guess where L.A. gets a significant amount of power from?

Yup. A nuke. The Palo Verde Nuclear generation station, 60 miles west of Phoenix, is 25% owned by the LA DWP. I think it generates something like 15% of the power in LA.

Like I said. All they do is babble about "environmental impacts" and then export their impacts to other states.

Buncha goddamn hyp-o-crites.

26 posted on 04/05/2005 6:59:42 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: ridesthemiles
About 20 of those trains go south through Colorado along I-25 every day. They have to go over Monument Hill (7350 feet) which is the highest point between Denver and Colorado Springs.

When they had the older engines they usually used 5 engines, in various arrangements. Sometimes 3 in front and three in back. Sometimes 2 each front, middle, and end.

With the newer engines, and someone more expert than I with have to explain the differences other than brute horsepower, They usually use just 4 engines, 2 at each end.

It's an awesome sight, I never get tired of admiring mans skill and ingenuity.

27 posted on 04/05/2005 7:03:35 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with really stupid enemies.)
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To: Young Werther

See my tag line. Take it from someone with a little more experience and wisdom than you have.


28 posted on 04/05/2005 7:06:44 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Wind Power, the new Social Security Fiasco.)
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To: Regulator
Californians whine about being dependent on foreign oil when they have plenty of it 10 miles offshore but won't allow it to be extracted.

I wish there was a stronger word than hypocrites. Maybe that's why they evented the word "damn."

29 posted on 04/05/2005 7:07:34 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

There's nothing like building a thousand mile long target for the bad guys.


30 posted on 04/05/2005 7:11:09 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (Will the last FReeper to leave please shut down the server.)
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To: Young Werther
Wind power sounds so good. It's free, just put up a wind turbine...receive state and federal tax breaks, and you can produce electricity for 2 to 3 times the cost of a coal burning plant.
The power company can also receive pollution credits for their existing coal burners. If they build enough wind energy they can even shut down some of their base-load coal burners. Heck I'm sure no one will mind if the lights go out when it is 100 degrees or 20 below zero and the wind stops blowing. Yup, let's put one up every mile or two.
Let's put the first one up in Teddy Kennedy's back yard on Martha's Vineyard, then all the way across our country with the final one sitting alongside Barbara Streisand's California beach front property.
31 posted on 04/05/2005 7:19:04 PM PDT by Et seq
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To: Balding_Eagle

A little wisdom is a dangerous thing. I see no wisdom in your tagline!


32 posted on 04/05/2005 7:23:02 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Et seq
When windpower was first proposed the windmills produced electricity at about $.10 per kilowatt hour. Today's turbines are more efficient and the cost is $.03-.04 per kilowatt hour which is cost competitive with coal fired plants without the stack gases!!!

In 1978 when I received my MBA this was the major topic in our business school. At that point oil and gas prices were such that coal gasification and liquification plants were planned for North Dakota. In goes the lignite out comes natural gas and gasoline. OPEC recognized the challenge and oil prices fell. Only one gasification plant was built and my nephew, a 4.0 Chem Eng has worked their for almost 20 years. About 30 percent of the lignite fires the chemical process. Imagine if windmills were built and 100% of the lignite could be converted.

I'm sorry but I'm a cock eyed optimist and believe that if we depend on "that old Yankee Ingenuity" we can take control of our energy future and not leave it in the hands of OPEC et al.

BTW, if we were to build and give these windmills to third world countries they could enhance their economic futuries. That's what happened with cell phones. These countries didn't have to go through the telephone poles and outside wire plants to have phone service and Internet access.

33 posted on 04/05/2005 7:35:16 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Young Werther; Dog Gone; FredZarguna; Boot Hill; Southack; Grampa Dave; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Hey youngster! I really have to smile at your irrational exuberance!! And you're just as adamant as Adam Ant!!!

It may seem like the most obvious thing on earth to you, but it's not the end-all and be-all in spite of you being the little dutch boy with his finger in a dike on the Zyder Zee!

The Dutch are luckier than Texans, because when they try to drain all those vernal pools in Texas, the GovernMental EnvironMental whackos will sue under the Endangered Species Act to protect all those FAIRY SHRIMPS!!!

34 posted on 04/05/2005 7:56:37 PM PDT by SierraWasp (The "Heritage Oaks" in the Sierra-Nevada Conservancy are full of parasitic GovernMental mistletoe!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

You have to protect Fairy Shrimps. The hetero ones, especially the Church Going Non-Fairy Shrimps, well, they just don't have a good lobby.


35 posted on 04/05/2005 8:08:38 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Young Werther; RightWhale; Robert357; snopercod
From another thread...can't remember which one....it is NOT good to a have a variable power generation as a significant portion of your base power....and wind energy is a variable power source....leads to power outages....

Rightwhale did you point that out?
36 posted on 04/05/2005 11:37:26 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (This tagline no longer operative....floated away in the flood of 2005 ,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
As I said, "I'm optimistic that the technical issues regarding implementing this plan can be addresssed. When Edison electrified the world he believed that DC was the way to go. Tesla, who developed the AC motor/generator came up with the answer to production and long distance transmission of electrical power using AC with its ability to be "steped up" for high voltage low amperage during the transmission phase and then "stepped down" at the end users location. "Ohm's law rules and as long as you begin with that the rest is just inventiveness"

In athe 60s when fusion was predicted to be the energy source of the future it was believed that when power demands were minimal during the night that the excess capacity would be used to hydrolize water and the Hydrogen Age would be born. Fusion never happened but hydrolizing water might be one way to "store" excess wind energy. A power plant in Michigan, (I think), uses a similar technique to store energy. Its battery is a lake on top of a mountain. At night water is pumped up the hill. During the day the water flows down the hill. The motor generators that pumped the water, (mechanical energy creating potential energy) become the generators when the water flows down the hill pass them. Yes there are system losses but the vast majority of energy is harvested.

Since variable energy sources might be a problem then overbuild the system so that expected base load production is always available. In 1991 the Scientific American measured the wind resources of the US and stated that North and South Dakota could produce 17% of US's electricity. In 1996 this estimate in Scientific American was increased to 78%. Why the increase. The room temperature superconducting technology had matured to the point where motor generators hwere much more efficient. That's the same technology which has improved memory storage devices. In 1990 if your hard drive stored 50Mb you were with it. Now a 100 Gig hard drive is passe! Go figure.

37 posted on 04/06/2005 7:25:22 AM PDT by Young Werther
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To: Dog Gone
We settled all the discussion and debate in these parts by proclaiming that "we only have REAL shrimps in out county!"

It's our story and we're sticken to it!!!

38 posted on 04/06/2005 7:44:51 AM PDT by SierraWasp (The "Heritage Oaks" in the Sierra-Nevada Conservancy are full of parasitic GovernMental mistletoe!!!)
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