Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Seattle think tank raises questions about evolution
Charlotte Observer & The Seattle Times ^ | 04/05/2005 | LINDA SHAW

Posted on 04/05/2005 7:42:56 AM PDT by bedolido

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200201-213 next last
To: balrog666
Nice elephant-tossing.

Sometimes it takes a two-by-four. And often even that doesn't work.

161 posted on 04/05/2005 2:00:21 PM PDT by Ichneumon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon
A PubMed search turns up *357* articles referring to domestic dogs as "Canis familiaris", and only *6* ("six") referring to them as "Canis lupus familiaris".

But what is Smokey the Bear's MIDDLE name??

162 posted on 04/05/2005 2:03:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon
Yes we are, because "we" have examined the genome sequences of both species.

By GOD; that SETTLES it then!!

163 posted on 04/05/2005 2:04:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: Quark2005
Maybe someday science will advance to the point where it can prove certain processes in nature to be too impossibly complex to be produced naturally, but it has not done that yet.

I'll not be holdin' me breath until that time though.....

164 posted on 04/05/2005 2:06:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: thomaswest
You seem to be avoiding the saber-toothed tigers and the woolly mammoths. They did NOT go extinct as a result of a meteor impact. So, how do you explain individual species extinctions? If they were properly designed...

I'm not "avoiding" them -- it's just that you're constructing a strawman, and I saw no point in addressing it. I see that it's necessary to provide further detail on the matter. The strawman is in the way you define the motivation and goals of the putative designer. In essence, you're saying that the only possible design agent is an omniscient designer who would never design anything that would go extinct.

However, we know from our own experience that we often design things to serve some singular purpose, and we forget about the thing once we no longer have a use for it, and thus we know that there is no strict requirement for a designer to be either omniscient, nor for him to "design for forever."

In terms of the sabertooth cats themselves, the achievements of the modern biotech industry -- not to mention the practice of selectively breeding animals to achieve certain desirable traits -- seem to indicate that there is no intrinsic barrier to an intelligent breeder deciding to create a breed of large cat with long teeth. I'm not saying that this did occur, but there is no technical reason why it could not have happened, either. Indeed, humans have frequently done very similar things.

The most recent theory I've seen for the extinction of the Woolly Mammoth is that they were done in by a combination of human predation and disease. The extinction of the saber-toothed cats would likely have followed as a consequence of the loss of their primary food source -- but that has nothing to do with how they got their long teeth in the first place.

165 posted on 04/05/2005 2:08:14 PM PDT by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon
Methinks there is a PROBLEM with this example.  Any of you great minds see it??
 

The Dawkins program to produce the string "Methinks it is like a weasel" involves three processes:

1. Random variation -- on each "generation", 1/8th of the character strings in the "population" (size selected by user) have one of their text characters completely randomized to some other character.

2. Selection -- the character string which has the most "correct" characters (or if more than one such string exists, the most recent such) is flagged, and a) will be "bred", and b) won't itself be mutated or replaced by one of its own "offspring".

3. Reproduction -- the current "most fit" character string undergoes "sexual reproduction' with randomly chosen other strings, and the resulting offspring replace the "mates". (This is actually more akin to biological lateral gene transfer.)

So all three of the processes necessary for evolution to take place are in the Dawkins program. And, as predicted by "evolutionists", the results are swift and sure -- the mutating, reproducing, subject-to-selection population very quickly (within seconds) produces a Shakespeare text string which the creationist "pure random" methods would not have produced before the Earth permanently froze over.


166 posted on 04/05/2005 2:10:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Personally, I like the monkeys chances for typing "To be or not to be, that is the question."


167 posted on 04/05/2005 2:14:11 PM PDT by dartuser (Many people think that questioning Darwinian evolution must be equivalent to espousing creationism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
I'll not be holdin' me breath until that time though.....

No guts, no glory, so please try.

168 posted on 04/05/2005 2:15:25 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: BeAllYouCanBe
"Once you allow yourself to say God did it, you stop looking for naturalistic explanations. If you stop looking, you won't find them,"

This begs the question of whether "naturalistic explanations" are the proper goal of science. Perfectly religious folk up until the 20th century had a perfectly good time doing science, while believing in a creator. "Naturalism" has not always been the underlying presupposition of science, and science did quite well.

169 posted on 04/05/2005 2:20:30 PM PDT by Chaguito
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: dread78645

Horseshoe crab placemarker.


170 posted on 04/05/2005 2:21:57 PM PDT by dread78645 (Sarcasm tags are for wusses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Quark2005

I was an atheist in my youth and later gravitated to the God started it and billions of years later, voila.

However, as a born-again Christian, I began to realize that the foundations of most Christian doctrines (sin, death, disease, sacrifice, and so on) are based upon the first eleven chapters of Genesis.

For Christians who believe that Adam sinned and brought sin and corruption into the world, the time before Adam could not have been filled with death, destruction, disease, and violence. If Adam was the result of millions of years of death, disease, and evolution, the whole concept of the FALL makes no sense at all. Our faith would be based upon an illogical, nonsensical framework. Whence cometh sin?

Just something for Christians to consider.


171 posted on 04/05/2005 2:37:28 PM PDT by IpaqMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: bedolido
Flight.


172 posted on 04/05/2005 2:37:57 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IpaqMan
For Christians who believe that Adam sinned and brought sin and corruption into the world, the time before Adam could not have been filled with death, destruction, disease, and violence. If Adam was the result of millions of years of death, disease, and evolution, the whole concept of the FALL makes no sense at all. Our faith would be based upon an illogical, nonsensical framework. Whence cometh sin? Just something for Christians to consider.

And that's a problem for whom?

173 posted on 04/05/2005 2:40:51 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: Chaguito
"Naturalism" has not always been the underlying presupposition of science, and science did quite well.

I defy anyone to name a specific area of science in which progress has been made without the assumption of naturalism. Yes I know, Newton believed in God, but he revealed 3 natural laws of motion; he didn't just say "God is responsible for motion". Same goes for all other scientific discoveries. They are called the "NATURAL SCIENCES" for a reason!!! Without the naturalistic assumption, science becomes religion, nothing more, nothing less. Religion is beautiful and essential, but it is not science, nor vice versa.
174 posted on 04/05/2005 3:08:40 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Chaguito

"Perfectly religious folk up until the 20th century had a perfectly good time doing science, while believing in a creator."

Yes, it seems that the search for the truth can take place in different ways. If you understand your bias then you may find the truth but if you discard answers because of where they lead you will have problems.


175 posted on 04/05/2005 3:13:38 PM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe (No French Person Was Injured In The Writing Of This Post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: cvq3842

"Darwinists are adopting their own "blind faith approach" to any questions about evolution. "

Rephrased: Darwinists AND Creationists are adopting their own "blind faith approach" to any questions about evolution.

There is no reason to reject the notion that evolution is a mechanism of God's creation.


176 posted on 04/05/2005 3:19:22 PM PDT by FastCoyote
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: IpaqMan
If Adam was the result of millions of years of death, disease, and evolution, the whole concept of the FALL makes no sense at all.

My interpretation of the fall of Adam is that it is representative of the human decision to rebel against God, from whenceforth people became conscious of the human condition. (Animals are not conscious of the condition of their mortality.) The message is what is important here.
This may not satisfy you, but the truth is, like it or not, a word for word literal interpretation of Gen. 1-2 simply does not mesh with observational fact (despite the claims of many dishonest books & websites). The Law may be meant literally, but many biblical expressions are certainly allegorical. (Do you really believe the citizens of Israel in David's time were literally more numerous than the sands of the seashore?)
177 posted on 04/05/2005 3:20:00 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

I have read a piece that asks, "How could a wood-pecker mutate and survive each mutation?" The point being that having a long skinny tonge for getting insects out of small beak pierced holes in trees is worthless unless you have 100 other adaptations simultaneously that make the tonge an asset to getting food rather than a "bottle-neck".


178 posted on 04/05/2005 3:20:26 PM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe (No French Person Was Injured In The Writing Of This Post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 172 | View Replies]

To: BeAllYouCanBe

Yeah, just-so stories are nice. Take your choice, ground - up, tree - down, convergent evolution, divergent evolution, etc. Whatever you need it's there in the magic hat.


179 posted on 04/05/2005 3:26:16 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

"Whatever you need it's there in the magic hat."

I think that magic is the key. The random chance is really the magic in the equation - call it chance -- but it is magic.


180 posted on 04/05/2005 3:38:26 PM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe (No French Person Was Injured In The Writing Of This Post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200201-213 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson