(Fr.)Frank Pavone Discusses the Last Moments of Terri Schiavo

Fox News ^ | 3/31/05

[marshmallow]

FATHER FRANK PAVONE, PRIESTS FOR LIFE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR: Last night, I spent about two hours with her until past midnight, together with Bobby Schindler and Suzanne, and then again this morning for about an hour and a half, and then right up until about ten minutes before she died. We were praying, most of that time was spent simply in prayer, in quiet, just caressing her, and assuring her, also, of the prayers and concern of so many people around the world.

Q: Was their any sign of response from Terri Schiavo?

PAVONE: Yes. And let me tell you, I’ll preface that by saying I visited with her several times before the feeding tube was removed. She was very responsive--closing her eyes when I said, “Let’s pray together, Terri,” opening them up after the prayer. Smiling, returning the kiss of her father. Turning her eyes to me when I spoke to her. In many other ways, as well, responsive.

Even today, although, of course, with the effects of the dehydration, her response was much less. Nevertheless, her eyes were open, her eyes were moving, and as I prayed with her, her eyes were shifting over toward my direction--even until the last moments that I was with her.

Q: Now, of course, we are going over old territory, but it’s important to note here, you’ve heard the doctors who suggest that that is all reflexive, that none of it was a conscious movement on her part--either eye movement or anything else. What do you say to that?

PAVONE: Certainly amazingly-time “reflexes.” I’ll give the doctors the benefit of their own expertise. But this raises, of course, the deeper moral issue. Give them what they are saying. What does that mean? That someone at a lower level of functioning can just be starved to death?

That, of course, is the bigger question here. This is not just a death. This is a killing.

And we have to ask ourselves, has our nation now begun to go down the road of killing those who are disabled, simply because somebody says that they want to be killed?

Terri didn’t die today from anything except the fact that her food and water were withheld for the last two weeks. She had no other underlying illness whatsoever. This is a case of throwing away a disabled person.

Q: Father, do we know what happened to the Schindlers, Terri’s parents, during these final moments?

PAVONE: Yes. We were in communication with them this morning by phone, and they were then on their way over here, actually, when we heard the news of Terri’s passing, and then all of us were together inside the hospice just moments after that announcement. They went in to Terri, of course, to embrace her body. I stood at the door and offered the prayers of the church, for those who are just deceased, and of course we sat and just consoled on another, and now they are grieving privately at home. They are going to have a statement a little later.

Q: Were you able to give Terri her last rites?

PAVONE: I was able to give Terri absolution last night. She had already been given the fuller last rites of the Church by other priests in recent days.

Q: It sounds as though, thankfully, there was not a direct conflict between the Schindlers and the Schiavos during these last moments.

PAVONE: Yes. Thanks be to God. Had she lived another hour or so, I’m afraid there might have been, because Bobby was saying, “I will be glad to be in her room, even with Michael there. I want to be there.” And Michael was saying, “No. I don’t want that.” But then she died before that conflict when any further.

Q: There was no reconciliation, then, between the two parties in this fight?

PAVONE: Not as of this moment. I have appealed publicly to Michael to reconsider his whole position here. And even now that Terri has died, I make that appeal to him again, because, again, this affects people way beyond Terri. This affects many, many people who are and are going to be in similar situations.

We all have to, as we grieve, examine our consciences, and say, “What are we going to do with the disabled? How are we going to treat them?”

Q: Some people say this is such a unique situation, because she didn’t have a living will, because there was some dispute about whether Michael had her intentions in mind, that this makes a bad case to base any kind of precedent on. What would you say to that?

PAVONE: Well, first of all, as far as how people should handle these situations, a healthcare proxy--namely, a person who can speak for you, if you are in a situation where you can’t speak for yourself--is much better than having a piece of paper. A piece of paper cannot interpret itself. People can begin arguing over what a piece of paper says, just as they can argue over what people said to them verbally. The best thing is to have a living person who knows you, whom you trust, whom you’ve discussed these issues with, and who then, when you are in medical circumstances in which you cannot speak for yourself, that person can get, from the doctors, the exact details of what can be done for you, and then in consultation with the clergy of their choice, make the proper decision at those moments.

So, in that sense, yes. There were elements here that led to the conflict. However, the solution is broader than that. We do have, here, a classic case of the question of throwing away disabled people. This woman was killed. She didn’t die of a terminal illness. She was killed, and it is a matter, therefore, of conscience, right now, for us all to ask: “Is this what we are going to continue to do with brain-injured people?” Because, whether they have expressed their wishes or not, obviously it can result in their death, as has happened today.

Q: Father Pavone, is the nation better off for having examined the issues that came to the fore with Terri Schiavo’s death?

PAVONE: We are much better off for having examined them. We at Priests for Life work with the clergy throughout the country. We will ensure that we continue to examine them in the teaching and preaching of the Church, and in the discussion among the people. We would be glad to be part of that whole debate as it ensues.

[bjs1779]

What kind of trash refuses a brother the opportunuty to be at the bedside of his sister at death? MS is just a big POS."

Scott Schiavo talks on the telephone, Thursday, March 31, 2005, at his home in Levittown Pa., follow the death of his sister-in-law. Terri Schiavo. Terri Schiavo's ashes will be buried in an undisclosed location near Philadelphia so that Terri's immediate family doesn't attend and turn the burial into a media spectacle, a member of the Schiavo family said Thursday. ``If Mike knew they would come in peace, he would have no problem with it,'' Scott Schiavo, Michael Schiavo's brother, said during an interview at his home. (AP Photo/Joseph Kaczmarek

[lugsoul]

"What kind of trash refuses a brother the opportunuty to be at the bedside of his sister at death?"

Has anyone stopped to consider that, UNLESS their position is that Michael should have allowed them all to be in the room 24/7, any time they were not in the room [even if they just went to the restroom] could have been the moment of her death?

Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?

[Fudd Fan]

"rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true."

No, he DID emphatically say that her brother and sister could not. Good grief.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Apparently, that's exactly what happened here, Father, with all due respect.

Funny, Michael Schiavo didn't remember Terris' wishes until after he received the settlement check, the amount of which was based on a calculated lifespan of 50 years of medical care for Terri, following the medical malpractice trial. In fact, he testified during said trial that he did not know what Terri would have wanted were she in said condition.

[syriacus]

It had been rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true.

Felos has changed his tune "in public" several times, publicly.

He's said the schedule of visitors to Terri was drawn up by Greer so Michael couldn't do anything about it.

At yesterday's press conference, Felos said Bobby had been in an altercation with a cop, thus the cop would have had to accompany Bobby into Terri's room. Michael decided that having a cop in Terri's room would "disturb" her death (even though Felos has insisted over and over that Terri is totally unaware) So Bobby was not allowed in.

Today, on FoxNews Felos said that Bobby said (paraphrased) "Let us be in the room with you and Terri. You can have a cop in there to make sure things go smoothly."

Felos, manipulator of the audience that he is, even tried to make it look like the Schindlers did not care about being with Terri. He mentioned that Terri's mother hadn't visitedt Terri since Easter. (DuH. She was getting physically ill) Even if Terri's parents weren't around, Bobby and Suzanne were nearby.

[BizzeeMom]

Yes and no. What Father Pavone is referring to when he says a healthcare proxy, would be a written, properly witnessed legal document, giving the decision-making rights/duties to a certain named person.

Terri didn't have one, and we don't know who she would have chosen if she did. It wouldn't necessarily have been her husband. We don't know.

[LibertyJihad]

" Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?"

Certainly ---- Before it was known that she died, the Schindler family spokesperson spoke to the press saying that they had been forced from the room and that they wanted to stay there knowing that she would die shortly. They had been told that death was imminent ---- within hours.

But of course, it would have been upsetting to Terri if they were allowed to stay ---- oh wait, she was a vegetable and had no clue what was going on. Which is it?

[frogjerk]

What's the story behind your tagline? I'd like to check that out.

[syriacus]

Q: How do you correctly pronounce the nickname for Enthusiastic Euthanasiasts?

A: You hold your nose and say "EWWWWWW"

[ErnBatavia]

Father Pavone mustv'e done something right, because Felos continually ranted against him during his many television interviews yesterday.

[maine-iac7]

MS is just a big POS.

That would make a good bumper sticker ;o)

[lugsoul]

I really hate to say this about a man of the cloth - but given some of the things that have passed his lips this week, I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.

[Fudd Fan]

"The Schindler's should keep him as a spokesman for awhile."

Fr. Pavone is a staunch defender of life. If you heard Felos in his tirade yesterday, he had vicious things to say about the Father specifically. Guess Father Pavone hit some nerves. Good, he needs to keep it up!

[Taggart_D]

I noticed this morning the Today show only had Michael Schiavo's attorney on. He said Terri's brother had to be restrained by police. There was no rebuttal guest from the Schindler family

The objective of the Today show (as well as CNN) is damage control to Michael Schiavo's public image. If you want Fair and Balanced coverage, change the channel.

[LYSandra]

Someone posed a great question-if this was Terri's wishes then why was a tube inserted in the first place? With each day I hate Michael and now his obnoxious brother even more!

[LibertyJihad]

>>I really hate to say this about a man of the cloth - but given some of the things that have passed his lips this week, I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.<<

I didn't say Fr. Pavone was the one who made the request for her family to be with her minutes prior to her death. It was, in fact, Brother Paul O'Donnell. You are not disputing that he spoke with the press minutes before Terri's death asking that the family be allowed in the room are you? If so, then you are the one who lacks credibility.

[BizzeeMom]

"Joe Ford, a Harvard undergraduate with severe cerebral palsy: "Like many others with disabilities, I believe that the American public, to one degree or another, holds that disabled people are better off dead

****

This guy is exactly right-on. This is the sad truth of it all.

I have had the unfortunate experience of being in a family situation where this was actually said, one brother to another. One was quadriplegic with end-stage MS, and just happy to be alive....a sweet loving man who was being cared for at home by his mother and my husband, as was his wish.

One of the other brothers said to him one day, "I'd rather be dead, than live the way you do."

He did die, about a year later, at the age of 42. Why do people begrudge the disabled their existence?

[syriacus]

What's the story behind your tagline? I'd like to check that out.

That's about Felos's press conference, yesterday, after Terri died.

Some of us made comments about Felos at Felos Slams Fr. Pavone of Priests for Life (Accusing Him of Speaking "Venom")
I made a comment on Felos's tongue flicking at post #9

[68 grunt]

... I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.

And it seems our credibility is tied to his.

[sockmonkey]

Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?

Not the exact moment but within a timeframe of fifteen minutes I would guess. It's not like there aren't indicators... heart rate drops, very shallow respirations..pulse dropping to nothing, then coming back for a bit, eyes starting to cloud over..sometimes little gurgling noises, Blood pressure drops so low you can't believe they are even still alive.

Unless someone dies because a semi splats them in the middle of the road, or they have a massive coronary, there certainly are indicators.