Live Thread: President's Remarks on Terri's Death

various | 3/31/2005 | Pyro7480

[jpl]

Currently not one nominee is blocked by the Senate. We're not at that point in the process yet.

As for recess appointments prior to this Congress, they would all be out of jobs now, as per the Constitution.

Please be more careful to learn something about the confirmation process before attacking the President.

You're pissing on me and telling me that it's raining. This is one of the darkest days in America that I can ever recall, and I just have absolutely no interest in hypertechnical procedural gobbledygook right now.

[FreedomCalls]

Be true to your beliefs, not people.

I believe I am. I don't belive the President has the power (or time) to change every stinky diaper in the land. Other than signing the law Congress passed (which he did) his actions were limited. Had a President Kerry not acted, I would have supported that action. I would not have supported him vetoing the Congressional bill ordering a de novo review, but beyond that there's little he could have done.

[mupcat]

"I second that"

...and third that! It's amazing how easy it is to blame all those who shouldn't be blamed instead of laying it at the feet of those who started this in the first place.

I'm getting really sick and tired of the "Blame Bush for everything" crowd.

[quantfive]

"That is your decision. I agree that Greer is the culprit here but I cannot bring myself to blame the Bush brothers on this. And I'm not talking about candle-light vigils, I'm talking about every citizens responsibility to intervene and stop a felony crime in progress. The murder of Terri Shiavo."

Not blaming Bush and I don't blame myself or the vast majority of the American public who tried to save her life. If you want to beat yourself up, go ahead. I just have a different opinion about it.

[Rutles4Ever]

I understand. Appearances matter, but I recall the Germans who were afraid to wake Hitler and tell him that the D-Day invasion had begun.

Point is, we can't be total sycophants to the Bushes. We'll hurt ourselves a lot more in the long run by doing that instead of holding their feet to the fire.

Your points are well-taken however.

[Natural Law]

So you are approving human sacrifice on the altar of judicial primacy?

[TigersEye]

Some people don't like history classes. But some things are worth studying.

John Locke, Second Treatise

CHAP. XIV.

Of Prerogative.

Sec. 159. WHERE the legislative and executive power are in distinct hands, (as they are in all moderated monarchies, and well-framed governments) there the good of the society requires, that several things should be left to the discretion of him that has the executive power: for the legislators not being able to foresee, and provide by laws, for all that may be useful to the community, the executor of the laws having the power in his hands, has by the common law of nature a right to make use of it for the good of the society, in many cases, where the municipal law has given no direction, till the legislative can conveniently be assembled to provide for it. Many things there are, which the law can by no means provide for; and those must necessarily be left to the discretion of him that has the executive power in his hands, to be ordered by him as the public good and advantage shall require: nay, it is fit that the laws themselves should in some cases give way to the executive power, or rather to this fundamental law of nature and government, viz. That as much as may be, all the members of the society are to be preserved: for since many accidents may happen, wherein a strict and rigid observation of the laws may do harm; (as not to pull down an innocent man's house to stop the fire, when the next to it is burning) and a man may come sometimes within the reach of the law, which makes no distinction of persons, by an action that may deserve reward and pardon; 'tis fit the ruler should have a power, in many cases, to mitigate the severity of the law, and pardon some offenders: for the end of government being the preservation of all, as much as may be, even the guilty are to be spared, where it can prove no prejudice to the innocent.

U.S. Constitution, Article II Section I. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.

[concerned about politics]

He is a hypocrite because????????????????

Are you talking about Bush? I have a 56K, and this thread has gotten to big to catch up. Please disregard this post if I'm mistaken.
Actually, Bush has been talking about the sanctity of life even before the 2000 election. He opened the door for the Supreme Court to rehear the case from scratch, assuming they'd act with mercy. Even Mass murderers get a last change, so why wouldn't the courts do the same for an innocent woman? The courts gave him the finger instead!
When it comes to Terri's death, after all he's said for 5 years, did he really have to say anything? Why? Friends of life already know his sorrow. What could he say that we don't already know?

[FreedomCalls]

Problem is, the judiciary has decided that it can act above, outside, and beyond the rule of law, making itself the arbiter of life and death with Roe v. Wade. And neither the executive, or legislative branch can do anything about it, as we see.

Yes they can. The President can nominate and the legislative can appoint, Supreme Court justices who will overturn that decision. Lacking that, a constitutional amendment can be implemented, but that would require approval of the state legislatures as well (the President has no say so in a constitutional amendment by the way). That is the nature of the system of "checks and balances" set up by the founding fathers.

[DC Bound]

See post 488 for the definition of executive power. What law, specifically, permits him to stand-down law enforcement who have been overtaken by courts? What law, specifically, allows him to act in tandem with the U.S. Congress, to tell the courts their jurisdiction? What law, specifically, grants him powers above his Constitutionally-limited power?

Good questions. See this essay.

http://www.renewamerica.us/news/050328keyes.htm

[FreedomCalls]

Can it be that, simply because she was innocent, she is not worthy of the executive power to have her rights restored?

Governor Bush did just that.

October 21, 2003

Florida Governor's Office EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 03-201

         WHEREAS, on October 21, 2003, the Florida Legislature passed House Bill 35-E (to be published as Public Law 03-418), signed this date by me, authorizing the Governor to issue a one-time stay in certain cases where, as of October 15, 2003, the action of withholding or withdrawing nutrition or hydration from a patient in a permanent vegetative state has already occurred and there is no written advance directive and a family member has challenged the withholding or withdrawing of nutrition and hydration; and

         WHEREAS, under House Bill 35-E a person may not be held civilly liable and is not subject to regulatory or disciplinary sanctions for taking any action to comply with a stay issued by the Governor pursuant to House Bill 35-E; and

         WHEREAS, in the case of Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, Robert Schindler and Mary Schindler, the parents of Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, have requested that the Governor enter a stay prohibiting further withholding or withdrawing of nutrition or hydration; and

         WHEREAS, a court has found that Theresa Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, Theresa Schiavo had no written advance directive as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, nutrition and hydration have been withdrawn from Theresa Schiavo, and continues to be withheld as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, the Schindlers have challenged the withdrawal and withholding of nutrition and hydration as of October 15, 2003; and

         WHEREAS, an immediate and urgent need has arisen to address the removal of nutrition or hydration, because death due to lack of nutrition and hydration is imminent;

         NOW THEREFORE, I, JEB BUSH, Governor of the State of Florida, by the powers vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the State of Florida, specifically House Bill 35-E, do hereby promulgate the following Executive Order, effective immediately:

         Section 1          A.  Effective immediately, continued withholding of nutrition and hydration from Theresa Schiavo is hereby stayed.

         B.  Effective immediately, all medical facilities and personnel providing medical care for Theresa Schiavo, and all those acting in concert or participation with them, are hereby directed to immediately provide nutrition and hydration to Theresa Schiavo by means of a gastronomy tube, or by any other method determined appropriate in the reasonable judgment of a licensed physician.

         C.  While this order is effective, no person shall interfere with the stay entered pursuant to this order.

         D.  This order shall be binding on all persons having notice of its provisions.

         E.  This order shall be effective until such time as the Governor revokes it.

         F.  The Florida Department of Law Enforcement shall serve a copy of this Executive Order upon the medical facility currently providing care for Theresa Schiavo.

         IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and have caused the Great Seal of the State of Florida to be affixed this 21st day of October, 2003.

[Gelato]

I agree that the governor may have been able to do more, but didn't he already intervene on her behalf before only to be overturned?

In a press conference days ago, Jeb Bush invoked Florida Statute 415.1051, which authorized the state to take custody of a vulnerable adult. He, in fact, was ready to enforce that law, until the judge ordered him NOT to follow the law.

The judge even ordered sheriffs to arrest anyone (even the governor) who might try to obey the Florida Statute--despite the fact that a judge has no law enforcement power.

Ordering disobedience to the law is, by definition, illegal. Usurping the power of another branch is also prohibited by Article IIII, Section 4, of the Florida Constitution. Such threats and orders could and should have been set aside by the executive, whose duty is to the Constitution, not a judge.

ONe thing for sure if this is an execution it's the longest one in our history.

Which makes it all the more cruel and unusual. And WRONG.

[concerned about politics]

So you are approving human sacrifice on the altar of judicial primacy?

That's a good way to put it.

[concerned about politics]

The judge even ordered sheriffs to arrest anyone (even the governor) who might try to obey the Florida Statute--despite the fact that a judge has no law enforcement power.

There's a petition running around Florida to impeach Judge Greer. They have thousands of signatures already.

[Rutles4Ever]

So why doesn't the President push for a constitutional ammendment banning abortion?

[expatguy]

Are you familiar with our nation's history?

What would you have to say concerning the people who 'broke the law' to attempt to bring Terri water?

[Gelato]

Governor Bush did just that.

That was great for October 21, 2003. But where was the one of March 18 - 31, 2005, directing law enforcement not to interfere with Terri Schiavo's right to life?

He did it before, as you point out.

[Gelato]

There's a petition running around Florida to impeach Judge Greer. They have thousands of signatures already.

One thing we all can agree on. Impeach the tyrant.

[EternalVigilance]

Those who point to Eisenhower's use of troops in Alabama are missing a key difference--there, the troops were enforcing a federal court integration order.

There is a more important difference:

In this case, an innocent American citizen was killed barbarically by her own government.

[DC Bound]

Some people don't like history classes. But some things are worth studying.

I'm stunned every day by the number of comments that throw the word "constitution" into a sentence to back up an argument that is wrong, based on a feeling of how things ought to be, supported by a document they have not read.