Student brings 'big bullet' to class; school evacuated

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Wednesday, March 30, 2005

[Willie Green]

Arlington Elementary School was evacuated Tuesday afternoon when a fifth-grader studying American history brought a 110-year-old artillery shell to class, Pittsburgh Public Schools police Chief Robert Fadzen said.

When the 11-year-old boy showed the shell to his teacher at 1:45 p.m., school officials evacuated the school and called the city police bomb squad, Fadzen said. The shell was taken for disposal.

[devolve]

Fiberglass tubing??????

At least the galvanized pipe was fairly thick-walled steel.

When yound we did some crazy stuff.

I have seen tiny Colt Open-Top .22 Black Powder revolvers after firing modern Smokeless cartridges - the frames exploded -

The same with antique BP muzzleloaders that were fired with Smokeless powder - many pieces!

Some early firearms designers made their first firearms of hardwood wrapped with wire when kids.

Amazing they lived to be adults!

A galvanized pipe pistol will hold a "two (2") incher" (magnum I reckon) as we used to call them - fat suckers

A "steelie" wrapped in paper and away she went.

More adventure than brains!


I've got a custom oversized forged-steel frame Colt Walker custom revolver I built a a few years back. Weight over 5 pounds - 9" barrel

The original Model 1847 Colt Walker .44 (.454") had a heavy magnum length extra-long percussion cap ignition cylinder

With full BP load the velocity of the bullet or ball used would exceed that of Dirty Harry's "Most Powerful Handgun In The Whole World" .44Magnum S&W

Massive lead bullet, enormous BP charge - deadly in 1847 - the Model 1847 had a shorter cylinder to save weight - and fingers

Some troopers had tried loading conical lead bullets backwards - as "shaped-charge" resulted in the Colt Walker blowing apart

It is "rumored" that some custom Colt Walkers have been modified with bored-thru cylinders to allow firing rifle cartridges such as the Marlin .444

Many Colts were sent back to Hartford and modified for metallic cartridge use - Springfield also modified Colts - their cylinders had 12 bolt notches to act as safeties much like Remington safety cylinders

Don't try this at home - precision design and machining is required and a double-handful of brave pills is helpful.

It is also "rumored" that the modern solid-propellant pellets can be made into one-piece caseless cartridges with the right adhesives

All still legal antique pre-1898 firearm and cartridge designs - exempt from FFL restrictions

[Snickersnee]

A wing of the Connecticut capitol houses the "Hall of Flags," a display of military colors, mostly from the Civil War. A few years back, they also had on display a length of tree-trunk from Antietam that was absolutely riddled with solid shot and shell -- it was taken from near where Gen. Mansfield fell, IIRC. Anyway, at some point, the tree began to "sweat" in a particular spot, almost as though it was running sap. Further investigation revealed that the liquid was coming from a shell stuck deep in the trunk. EOD was called, the capitol evacuated, and they very, very gingerly eased it out of the building and up to the (Hartford) North Meadows in the state police bomb wagon; ka-boom! No more tree trunk.

[Lazamataz]

Poor kid, he must be heart broken. If it's 110 years old, what are the chances of it just spontaneously exploding?

Actually, if it was live ammo, the chances are quitr good. There's nothing more dangerous than old ordnance. The stuff becomes much more touchy with age.

[Squeako]

Fiberglass tubing?????? At least the galvanized pipe was fairly thick-walled steel.

Well, the tube was actually an 8" long piece of a pole used by pole vaulters. I figured that if it could take a 175# guy running full-tilt, be planted in the box and fling him over 14' into the air, it wouldn't have much trouble with a single 1/4" OD firecracker (unravelled from a cheap multi-pack, not an M80) pushing a plastic bottle cap out the open end (about 1-1/4" ID).

There was a very slight gap between the wall (which was about 3/16" thick) and the bottle cap so when dropping it into the muzzle, it would slide down the tube in about two seconds. Especially considering the low mass of the projectile, there was precious little chance that the small firecracker would produce enough energy (e.g. it couldn't anyway) to destroy the multi-layered fiberglass weave/resin matrix before the majority of the gas escaped through the open end. Besides, the plug on the "safe" side of the tube was a cap off a gallon milk jug held in place with duct tape, and it never budged.

I never had a desire to play with "fat suckers"/mini-bombs, thankfully, just "small fries". But, I was surprised that the cap went through the pizza box the first time I fired it, but after all, it was a pizza box.

[Squantos]

All the experts in my career field are dead ya whippersnapper !

[Squantos]

LEO Bomb squad weenies wore such shirts.....real EOD wears T-Shirts designed in house that you'll never see for sale anywhere !

Frag Zone in Indianhead MD where the old EOD school is has a great collection of PC T-Shirts for sale yet for the very best of the best T-Shirts you have to brother in law a EOD Tech to get. Best bar fight starting quotes, rants, poetry, insults , suggestions and slogans ever are on a military EOD techs T-Shirt !

Great read....thanks for the ping Travis !!....Archy will love this thread also !

[devolve]

OK

Tougher than I thought

Also you were smart enough to keep loads on the modest size

Using glass marbles in heavy gauge steel pipe was my brothers idea - a construction engineer who was at the Cape for a while

My Colt Walker is a monster but creates quite a stir when fired at the range

In Texas some carried two


Remington made some modern rifle barrels of composites - Some light composite barrels are available for Rugers from aftermarket suppliers

You will see more composites in firearms

Duct-taped end caps

You are an optimist


The potato/hairspray guns used plastics I believe

Scared some town councils

I loved that Brit trebuchet that tossed whole English cars - also the occassional grand piano

I always imagined Teddy Kennedy sailing thru the air

Somewhere out west they use watermelons and gadgets to toss them

[Squeako]

Also you were smart enough to keep loads on the modest size.

Well, I'd always heard of people blowing off fingers with Cherry Bombs and M80s so I never wanted to take the chance by messing with them. I actually had one of these firecrackers blow up on the ground while I was lighting it, and it just startled me. I'm talking the little Black Cat type that were about 1-3/4" long (but cheaper ones).

Duct-taped end caps. You are an optimist.

Well, I fired quite a few multi-packs and quite a few bottle caps and never had any sort of issue. The firecracker was located at about the 6" point from the end of barrel. Now, had I put an M80 in it, I would have been an idiot, but these were relative "small fries" as I mentioned.

The potato/hairspray guns used plastics I believe

I had a friend who would always talk about potato guns and "tennis ball canons" that used hair spray, but I was too concerned that it would blow up. I really liked playing with fire as a kid, but never messed with liquid accellerants. I have to admit, it sounds like you were quite daring!

My Colt Walker is a monster but creates quite a stir when fired at the range

When you mentioned the Walkers exploding, it reminded me of the scene in "Unforgiven" where the Sheriff was talking about how English Bob killed Two-Gun something-or-other after the latter's Colt blew up in his hand, "a failing common to that model" said the Sheriff. Are the problems actually the result of a design flaw, or powder issues as you mentioned before? I don't know anything about them (not that the movie was a documentary or anything).

[Squeako]

I loved that Brit trebuchet that tossed whole English cars - also the occassional grand piano

The poor piano...he should have used a pallet of accordions! A couple of years ago, I built a tiny balsa trebuchet about 3" tall with a piece of dental floss/cloth as the sling and a few pennies for the counter-weight. It could launch a pea about four feet, if you can believe it!

[goldstategop]

A 110 year old artillery shell? Talk about explosive ordnance! I assume this was for a history report on Spanish American War Munitions.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Squeako]

Duct-taped end caps. You are an optimist.

1 killed in Blast at S.C. Duct-Tape Plant

It's awfully strange that we're talking about duct tape and explosions and a duct tape factory just had an explosion. Sorry for the guy who lost his life.

[devolve]

Colt early frames were cast of iron - firearm "tech" increased over the years to the late 1800s - really 1896 on with much stronger forged steel frames for use safely with smokeless powder

The Colt Walker had a massive frame compared to the Pattersons made in the 1830s that were successful in Texas

The Walker design was held up by military idiots and got to Texas a bit late. Improper training resulted in lead conical bullets being sometimes loaded reversed - that caused the powder to expand the cylinder chamber's walls and bad things happened

In 1848 Sam Colt moved from Whitney's factory in Whitneyville CT to Hartford and he shortened the barrel and also the cylinder length thereby reducing the amount of BP that could be used - safer

Gene Hackman spoke of drawing against someone with a Walker Colt

A Walker is a massive 9" barrel close to 5 pound revolver and nobody sane would attempt to use it in a draw against a lighter handgun

Walkers were made to be carried like horse pistols in large holsters carried on the horse - often with a carbine on the other side

I was surprised that Clint Eastwood allowed that line to be used in that flick

The current Colt SAA is a smaller version of a Walker

The Model 1851 Navy .36 was the frame used for the Model 1860 Army .44

The frame was machined to carry a rebated fatter cylinder to allow a .44 chamber

The Navy and Army were converted to metallic cartridges by Colt and some were made so on the frontier a Colt could be fired with a cartridge or as cartridges were scarce out west, a percussion cylinder was provided for some Colts

See Wild Bill Hickok on Colt Navies

BP and lead and caps were easier to get then cartridges

The Model 1872 breech-loading metallic cartridge pistol Colt made for US Army contracts became known as the Model 1873 Colt Single Action Army revolver

Trigger and internal small parts on a Model 1860 Colt Army are interchangeble with most early Colt SAA parts

I have a circa 1898 .44-40 and a rare original Model 1876 nckel-plated detachable brass skeleton-stock for it -

My circa 1862 Colt Army .44 percussion revolver has a walnut detachable stock for it but the stock is a prototype repro Colt made in late 1960s

Original CW period shoulder stocks are few and far between and worth a ton of gold

But then all 1st Generation Colts are gold

Eastwood's westerns are fairly authentic

Recall "True Grit"?

Remember the Colt Walker in that movie?

[Redcitizen]

Then I missed out on those days, Guns don't kill people. But of course you already know that.
Did you know Pancho Villa invaded New Mexico in 1916?
Here is an article: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~breynold/pancho.html

Pancho Villa State Park, Columbus, New Mexico
Pancho Villa's Raid on Columbus, New Mexico
In the early morning darkness of March 9, 1916, guerrillas of the Mexican Revolution under General Francisco "Pancho" Villa attacked the small New Mexico border town and military camp at Columbus -- the site of what is now Pancho Villa State Park.

As the sun rose on the morning of March 9, 1916, the center of Columbus, New Mexico was a smoking ruin. Word of Pancho Villa's attack on the town flashed by telegraph, making newspaper headlines throughout the nation. Camp Furlong, the Columbus military outpost, seethed with activity as fresh troops arrived by train and the U.S. Army prepared to pursue Villa into Mexico.

Pershing's Punitive Expedition
Led by General "Black Jack" Pershing, who would later command the Allied forces of World War I, the Punitive Expedition forged south from Columbus on March 16, 1916. The search for Villa would ultimately lead American troops some 400 miles into Mexico, as far south as the city of Parral where, after a skirmish, they turned back to bases in northern Mexico. For 11 months, the 10,000 soldiers of Pershing's Punitive Expedition endured parching heat and bone-chilling cold as they ranged the wild deserts and mountains of the vast state of Chihuahua, tracking the Villista raiders.

The Punitive Expedition was the last true cavalry action mounted by the U.S. Army, and, ironically, was also the first U.S. military operation to employ mechanized vehicles. In what would prove to be a preparation for World War I, Pershing experimented in Mexico with the use of automobiles, trucks, and airplanes, though fuel for those new-fangled machines often had to be transported on pack mules.

Pershing succeeded in dispersing the Mexican forces that had attacked Columbus, but the revolutionary chieftain, Pancho Villa, vanished into the Mexican backcountry and was never captured. In February, 1917, the Punitive Expedition returned to Columbus and Camp Furlong, where troops, toughened by the rigorous march through Chihuahua, boarded trains that would carry them to other conflicts. Many would see action in World War I.

Columbus and Camp Furlong Today
The military post at Camp Furlong was closed in 1926, and the extensive cactus gardens of Pancho Villa State Park now cover its site. Several buildings dating from the time of Villa's raid still stand in Columbus, including the adobe Hoover Hotel, the restored Columbus railroad depot, and the old U.S. Customs Service building. The customs house, build in 1902, is now the Pancho Villa State Park visitor center, with exhibits describing the histories of Pancho Villa, the Columbus raid of 1916, and Pershing's Punitive Expedition.

---

Pancho Villa State Park is located 35 miles south of Deming via NM 11.

For more information, contact:

Pancho Villa State Park
P.O. Box 224
Columbus, New Mexico, USA 88029
505-531-2711

New Mexico State Parks
408 Galisteo; P.O. Box 1147
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA 87504
505-827-7465; in NM 1-800-451-2541

---

For more information about places to visit in Southwest New Mexico, check out the guidebook at VIVA, as well as the VIVA New Mexico homepage.

---

Copied from PVSP brochure, Feb. 1995
posted by Betty Reynolds, New Mexico Tech Library
breynold@nmt.edu

[Rebelbase]

The last union soldier casualties from an artillery shell at a captured confederate fort happened in 1942 at Fort Macon, NC.

A pair of union soldiers used an old shell for a fireplace andiron in the casemate where they were bunked. Boom!

[iconoclast]

You know, if he's like most kids when I was young (stone age), he may even have tapped it a few times!

I expect I would have called a couple of buddies over and we'd have dropped it off the airing deck! ;o)

[archy]

Did you know Pancho Villa invaded New Mexico in 1916?

I knew it. My maternal Grandfather was in Columbus on business with the El Paso & Southwestern Railroad in early March of 1916, planning on leaving in the afternoon of March 9th; the raid early that morning upset his travel plans. He discussed the matter with me twice, leaving out a couple of details I later learned from his diary, left to me after he passed away.

He indicatred that he was pretty certain he scored 11 that evening, and possibly two or three more, using both the two rifles available to him, backed up with two handguns and his shotgun. And noted he figured on trading in his double-barrelled shotgun for a repeating pump-gun at his next opportunity. It was, it seems, a very sporty evening for him.

[archy]

When you mentioned the Walkers exploding, it reminded me of the scene in "Unforgiven" where the Sheriff was talking about how English Bob killed Two-Gun something-or-other after the latter's Colt blew up in his hand, "a failing common to that model" said the Sheriff. Are the problems actually the result of a design flaw, or powder issues as you mentioned before? I don't know anything about them (not that the movie was a documentary or anything).

Well, there's one potential hazard in this day when it's not uncommon for those who aren't sufficiently familiar with a subject- such as muzzleloading weaponry- and try their hand at it anyway, bolstered by movie or TV familiarization that can lead to some bad ideas.

The best example of that sort of thing was related to me by a firearms dealer pal who cut me an awfully good deal on a hardly-used muzzleloading rifle, knowing I'd been around the things for a couple of decades. It had been traded in, he told me, by a customer who was looking for a tin of percussion caps for it, not kinowing what size it took. He had it outside in his truck, and brought it in for a quick check.

Upon having it handed to him, my pal the dealer noted the dull grey of a ball right at the end of the muzzle, and upon asking if there was a powder charge behind it, he was informed that there was. In helpfully trying to explain that the ball needed to be seated against the powder charge, he was horrified to learn that the ball WAS in fact in contact with the powder: the new owner had simply filled up the barrel with FFFG, then topped it off with a hand-cast ball from the mould helpfully included.

After a gentle explanation that this wasn't the way to do things, the owner got a good deal on a single-barrel 12 gauge and some deer slugs for it, probably better for his purposes, along with a preomise that if he ever decided to take up shooting with anything with which he wasn't familiar, he'd stop back by the shop for advice. And so I got a good deal on the leftover Hawkin repro as a result.

But there's no doubt that if there'd been a box of caps included in that discount-mart store package, there'd have been one more fatality that year. And the angels sing....

[archy]

LEO Bomb squad weenies wore such shirts.....real EOD wears T-Shirts designed in house that you'll never see for sale anywhere !

Or in foreign languages that don't EVEN look like English....

[Squantos]

Yep ! I used to laugh..... as the rule was ,if ya had time to get a t-shirt, you were just a tourist.

[Redcitizen]

So now we know why the kids in NM still carried guns to school back in the 70's. And the story of your granpa shows why it is always best to be well armed.