Posted on 03/30/2005 8:45:00 AM PST by stan_sipple
the (relatively silent) majority of Americans feel(s) that the most compassionate treatment for Terri Schiavo - as well as the proper legal course of action - is to let her vegetative existence end, as advocated by her legal guardian, her husband.
For Republicans who consider their party a captive of the religious right on matters like medical research and right-to-die legislation and now legislative intrusion into the judicial system, there is a way to at least feel more comfortable with their political consciences.
That way is to leave a party whose leadership is currently attempting to leave behind in the dust of American constitutional history the principle of separation of powers that has served this country well for more than 200 years.
the religious conservatives deeply involved in the case believe in an afterlife - eternal life in circumstances considerably more appealing than lying in a hospital bed in a vegetative state for 15 years, being kept alive by food and liquids fed into your body through a hole in your abdomen.
Wouldn't the more compassionate course be to release Terri from a vegetative existence in the belief you are sending her on to a better life after death?
(Excerpt) Read more at omaha.com ...
No the disaster is that the GOP has responded to these Loons at all. Terri should have been allowed to peacefully meet her maker a dozen years ago rather than be dragged out by political opportunists happy to cater to the whims of the deluded.
As have I sir, as have I.
I think it boils down to what each thinks is the ultimate authority. For me it is Jesus. For others it is the law, or some vague idea of situational ethics. Neither side can really understand the other, because their world view is totally different. Both can work together in some things, and will work against each other in other things.
To me, as a Christian, this is a pretty cut and dried case of Natural Law versus man's law. Terri has done nothing wrong, and is not "brain dead" (notice how that never gets brought up?). Therefore, we need to err on the side of life.
To some who don't believe in God, when they project themselves into Terri's state, they see someone trapped by a non functioning body/brain. To end that tormented (again in their view) existence is ultimately a mercy.
While your reply was garbled in transmission you seem to believe I am not likely to consider what you say. All I want is a hint as to the authority of a president to get involved in matters like this. Just a hint.
What has happened to the "Big Tent" FReepers that were on every thread during the 2004 election? "If you vote Libertarian, Bush will lose. If you vote Constitution Party, Bush will lose. Do you want to see the evil DEMOCRATS take the Whitehouse"? Now the Republicans control the House, the Senate and the Whitehouse, and people whine when they find out Republicans are really just politicians too. Now that the Republicans are nothing but "Democrats" and the Democrats are "socialists", we have FReepers calling for third parties, LOL! Don't you know FRiend, you Christian pro-lifers are just gonna hand the next election to the Democrats. /sarc
She may fall into that certain subset of all living beings that are classified as human. However, she is now in such a state that only the physical shell of a human being is left. I do not see it as a denial of her human right to life to simply allow nature to complete what really started 15 years ago.
Vegetative state......gotta think about that for a second. Okay! Second is up.
Let's take for instance, the carrots I have known. Do I recall ever seeing a carrot, open it's eyes and beam lovingly and trustingly at a familiar face? Nope, can't say that I have. Have I ever witnessed a carrot, turning it's head, smiling and following the movement of an object with it's big brown eyes? Nope.
Terri Schiavo feels and shows emotions, she is not now nor has ever been in a vegetative state-those unfeeling, unthinking, uncaring SOBs who are determined to kill her, are the makings for a garden salad. But fried lard would probably be more healthful than that particular salad.
In all matters political, Italy is a mess, but one thing about Italians, they understand who really represents next of kin. I know that His Holiness isn't Italian, but he might as well be, and he's lucky that Italians view the Ecclesiastical family, the same way they view Dad, Mom, siblings, lest some unscrupulous clergy take the Pope's case to an Italian probabte Judge, and you know, the rest would be, how you say, history.
The general consensus around here, in the conservative South, is that "if I ever wind up like Terri, shoot me in the head. If my parents act like Terri's, shoot them in the head."
I don't have a dog in this hunt, but do you not see how your statement opens up so many doors that it may be impossible to ever close them all?
They cannot ALONE amend it. But they can propose an amendment with a 2/3 vote. Then it must be ratified by 3/4 of the states. Or Congress can call a Convention on the application of 2/3 of the state legislatures. But even then the mode of ratification is still proposed by Congress, and must be ratified then by 3/4 of the states. And given that the same people who elect the congressional representatives also elect state representatives, this is not likely to make a big difference.
That's a link to an article where a commentator makes the same claims you do without actually showing where anyone has labelled TS as "sub-human."
It wasn't all that long ago (the 1970s) that most conservative Christians shied away from politics as being too "worldly." Reagan brought them in. But after 25 years of lipservice from the Republican Party with little to show for their support, Christians may pull back into their shell and forego future political activism. I don't think the defining issue for conservative Christians is Terri Schiavo's situation. Terri's case only highlights the need to reign-in an Imperial Judiciary. The defining issue may be whether the Republicans, with a 55 seat majority in the Senate, decides to crush the Democrats' obstruction on Bush' judicial nominations. If the GOP decides the "civil" thing to do is to fold in the face of the Democrats' unconstitutional filibuster, Christians may walk.
Not really. We're not talking about someone in a wheelchair or even someone like Christopher Reeves. We're talking about someone who is, for all intents and purposes, brain dead (though she retains some very low-level autonomic brain function). If her injuries had been so bad as to require a respirator, we wouldn't even be having this discussion as everyone in her family would have long ago agreed to take her off life support.
The problem is, her parents have latched on, in their grief, to brief instances where the autonomic functions of her brain make it appear like she is responding to their voices. They disregard the other 99.99% of the time where no such coincidences occur. It is understandable that grief-stricken parents want to hold onto the false hope of these coincidental responses. However, objective observers, including a doctor who sat with TS for over 20 days, agree that any "responses" are nothing more than coincidental.
That shoe fits the other foot as well. I've seen "pragmatic" Republicans here on FR telling conservative Christians that the Party would be better off without them, so they should take a hike.
Care to show us the MIR and the EEG that prove your point?
Exactly. Slippery slope theories dictate that the courts power has just increased from removing respirators to removing food and water, quite the difference. My take on the whole affair...without a living will, the courts have NO idea what this women wanted. Insurance paid for 41 years of life support, and that's what she should get. Period.
Nope. All I have to rely on is the testimony of medical experts and the pictures we've all seen here on FR showing that TS's higher brain is, at this point, nothing but liquid.
You show me your medical experts, and I'll raise you two. You seem like an intelligent guy. You must know that there are at least twice as many medical experts who have examined Terri since Greer determined her to be "PVS" who dispute that finding.
Kind of a moot point. We can argue this until the sun grows cold. However, the parties to this case have had the chance, numerous times, to debate this case in court. Every single time, the courts have sided with MS. Maybe you disagree with the courts' decisions. So be it. You're just going to have to accept that most people, and all the judges involves, simply do not agree with you.
The Christians are not going to hand the next election to the Democrats.
The Republicans are in the process of doing it by taking stands and then retreating with their tail between their legs.
On the Nuclear Option, in particular, with 55 Senators, there is just no place for the Republicans to hide. It's flipping OBVIOUS that we need to reform the Judiciary by getting conservatives up there. It's obvious that the Democrats are going to filibuster them. Therefore, it's obvious that there will be no conservative Judiciary unless the Republicans push things. THEY proposed the Nuclear Option. They have the power to do it. But in the same week as the Schiavo case, they backed off. Which means that, for whatever inexplicable reason, they don't WANT to do it!
Now, with the pro-life Christians, it's just nuts to suggest that this group has "held the party over a barrel".
WHAT barrel? The economic conservatives have gotten through welfare reform, NAFTA, three tax cuts, capital gains cuts, dividend tax cuts, elimination of the death tax, and are now pressing onward to privatizing Social Security. Every one of those issues was INCREDIBLY controversial, but you never see the party backing off on economic conservative issues. They keep paying out and keep pressing hard.
What have the Christians asked for?
WHAT?
A general pro-life stance, against abortion, what the full understanding that the final decision on that reposes in the Courts. So, the pro-life Christians have worked for 30 years to get ONE thing, a change in the courts.
Now the Republicans manifestly have the power to pack the Judiciary, but what are they doing? NOT passing the Nuclear Option to override the Democrat filibuster to do it.
On the ONE concrete thing the Republicans can do for the pro-life Christians, they consciously choose NOT to do it.
And then folks say that the CHRISTIANS are unreasonable for screaming that the one single thing they organized and fought for for THIRTY YEARS is being withheld by the Republicans.
The Christians are right to be angry. They were right to be angry when Arlen Specter started shooting off his mouth but got Judiciary anyway. This is the Christians' only issue, and the Republican leadership, who is willing to be LIMITLESSLY controversial on war and taxes, regulation and the environment, suddenly cannot pass the only REAL pro-life legislation that has faced Congress in years.
It stinks.
That it comes at the same time as the Terri Schiavo case has put it all into the glaring spotlight.
The Republican coalition can be held together.
Keep your damned promises!
Pass the Nuclear Option.
You campaigned on it.
You have 55 seats.
There is no excuse for not doing it.
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