Lessons . . . and lapses (Schiavo been pregnant wanted to abort husband would have no legal say)

The Washington Times ^ | March 30, 2005 | Cal Thomas

[Former Military Chick]

The Terri Schiavo case has been a perfect media storm and an object lesson.

For the media, it served as a metaphor for much of what divides us: pro-life versus pro-choice; religious versus secular; wife versus husband versus parents/in-laws; church versus state.

Many religious leaders (and certain members of Congress) at first distinguished themselves by standing on principle and appealing to the state to preserve Terri Schiavo's life. But a few called for defying authority, suggesting Florida officials disobey court orders, "rescue" Terri from her hospice bed and reinsert her feeding tube.

The Miami Herald reported Saturday that agents of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement told police in Pinellas Park they were planning such an operation. The newspaper said agents backed down rather than confront local police outside the hospice. Certain people seem to be arguing that only those laws and judicial rulings with which they agree are to be obeyed. That invites anarchy.

Some of those calling for the law to be disobeyed were ordained clergy, which is especially troubling.

What do these ordained men mean by encouraging people to break the law? Have they not read, or taken seriously, Romans 13, the chapter in which Paul, the Apostle, says, "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

The footnote in the New International Version reminds the reader the "governing authorities" at the time these verses were written were probably pagans and Paul said to submit to them anyway. That's difficult to get around, especially for those who take the Bible seriously.

[drlevy88]

Yes, that is an "obey God rather than man" situation

[TAdams8591]

I don't see it as abandoning their cause but as NOT following all the way through.

And there are plenty of other "religious" issues that will come up throughout their administrations. The Bushes won a good deal of the Conservative vote. And a GOOD many conservatives, not all of whom are religious, support Terri. Most of them, don't see it your way and likely NEVER will.

BTW, abandon the charade. It's extremely transparent.

[Former Military Chick]

I appreciate your passion and I have no doubt that Jeb Bush has been staying up night's looking for an answer.

To think otherwise would be silly. He believes in life and that Terri should be able to remain on the feeding device.

I fear it is politics. Pure and simple. Not sure what Jeb wants to do in the next 10 years but if he is thinking of another higher office he must feel he is on egg shells as he makes decisions on this case.

While he should do what he believes damn the law I can understand his reluctance. Right now this is a no win situation.

Kind of like congress sending a subpoena and not forcing the issue. That really irritated me. Oh well, not the only one frustrated over this case.

[drlevy88]

Kind of like congress sending a subpoena and not forcing the issue.

Seems Gonzales won't get off his rear end. Both Bush and Congress are irritated with him.

[TAdams8591]

I'd say Terri and her parents are the BIGGEST losers of all.

At this point, it's hard to feel sympathy for Jeb and his future political carreer (from Jeb's perspective isn't it enough that his brother and father were each president and he was Governor?) when an innocent woman, after years of torture and abuse, lies thirsting and starving to death while her poor family is not permitted to offer her even a drop of water or a bread crumb. And this they must endure in the prescence of the man who for years fought for her DEATH.

Such a fate should only be reserved for those who would impose such a fate on someone else.

Also, see reply #22.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Its a shame that he used the religious voter to his benifit and now has abondoned their cause. The President has done the same, its reprehensible.

Said the brand spankin' newbie.

[TAdams8591]

They are still seeking LEGAL remedies, so I wouldn't say they'v given up. They aren't willing to forcibly rescue Terri which is a deplorable moral error in my view.

However, I have not forgotten the principles here who are the most guilty, Michael Schiavo, Felos and GREER and much of my ire will be reserved for them. Somehow, legally, all three must be brought to JUSTICE.

[tina07]

the Pope might be getting a feeding tube...hmmmm...should that horrid life saving thing be allowed??

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Based on this logic, wouldn't a German Christian been required to follow Nazi law and not stand in the way of Jews being sent to the gas chambers?

By that logic, any law promulgated by any political authority, is valid, and should be obeyed without question.

Thomas is upset (and rightly so, I'd imagine) because circumstances are threatening so force him to choose between his practical respect for the law and the tenets of his belief system. It's the same thing I'd imagine has been giving Jeb Bush fits these past few weeks. No one really wants to face the contradiction, because it means an end to a way of life that required nothing of us.

[T'wit]

I think there is a confusion of terms. By "governing authorities," Paul is referring to leaders (ecclesiastical, tribal), not to the central state, i.e., "government" as we use the word. Nobody supposed, for instance, that the Romans were divinely ordained to rule the Jews. On the contrary, believers are enjoined to "put not your faith in princes" (the state). ("Prince" was the agreed term to talk about government affairs without getting your head lopped off for insulting the king.)

For a different, almost amusing, take on this question, see 1 Samuel:1-18, wherein the Lord tells Samuel that if the people will not obey Him, their Lord, they will get -- well, the Internal Revenue Service. And they will "cry out in that day!"

[Ben Chad]

"Clinton-Appointed Judges created this monster."

Think again. Judge Greer was elected under the banner of the GOP just this last year. This monster is a stain on all of us and particularly our leadership at the state and national levels. As another poster said, we need leaders with balls, but what can you expect of men named Bush.

[hershey]

Hannity and Colmes had a panel of grim-faced harpies on last night, one in a communist T-shirt. (Maybe they had a panel fighting for Terri's life, too, but if so, I tuned in too late.) This cheering squad for death and without missing a beat, dragged in every GW/republican political smear imaginable, including GW's having stolen both elections. Where do they find these nutjobs -- DU?

[hershey]

You'd think dems and libs would be pleased that Jeb Bush hasn't reinserted that feeding tube -- if they really believed their arguments. But no. Terri Schiavo's plight, like everything else, is fodder for the quest back to the White House.

[Carry_Okie]

First it should be noted that while invoking "God-talk", the Declaration was essentially a synthesis of enlightenment thinking and writing.

And is oft regarded a an exposition of modern paganism, at least if you concur with Peter Gay.

And you suggest that we can easily put this divine instruction aside in favor of a political document used to justify separation from the British Empire?

Reading a little much into the post, aren't we? What I was pointing out is that there is an apparent conflict between Cal Thomas' citation of Paul and the expressed grounds for the American Revolution. Is there something wrong with that?

Few would argue that, the Revolution didn't provide a unique environment of religious freedom for nearly 200 years. Few would argue that a nation Constituted under God has not brought the blessings of liberty. Indeed, it is our abandonment of those principles as a Christian citizenry that has brought Terri Schiavo's predicament upon us.

Are you so certain of the context of his words that you willingly apply them to all other circumstances? Some might argue that adherence to Paul's admonition led to tolerance of NAZI crimes, giving the world "good Germans" during WWII. Do you argue that there is no point at which you would fight an illegal authority?

It is merely a point of interest, so kindly dispense with your righteous indignation.

[Smartaleck]

"What do these ordained men mean by encouraging people to break the law?"

Even more disgusting is the encouraging and exploitation of children to break the law!!!!

[grassboots.org]

This is the video that should be shown on the news everynight - it is even more powerful than the balloon video.

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb/videos/Terri_Big_Eyes.rm

This is not reflex action - she heard the doctor, she opened her eyes as wide as she could to impress him.

Even Fox news has ignored this clip.

[Just mythoughts]

This is absolutely correct, however, nowhere was the instruction given to disobey GOD in the name of man's law!!!

[Smartaleck]

"The Judges (including Judge GREER) BROKE the law"

Perhaps not. There are certain procedures, bi-partisan in nature, that Congress must follow. Did they?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

[TAdams8591]

Firstly, I have read claims stating much the opposite.

Secondly, did any evil come of it? Because the ILLEGAL precedent established in Terri's case may well cause or help to cause the death of many.