Terri Schiavo's 2002 CT scan

MSNBC ^ | 3 29 05 | msnbc dan abrams interview

[flixxx]

TRANSCRIPT Updated: 4:04 p.m. ET March 29, 2005 The overwhelming majority in the medical community say Terri Schiavo has close to no brain activity and has no chance of regaining awareness. Dr. Ronald Cranford, who actually examined Terri Schiavo in 2002 and testified to her condition, joined "The Abrams Report" on Monday. Cranford is the assistant chief of neurology at the Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis as well as a faculty member at the University of Minnesota's Center for Bioethics. Below is the transcript of their conversation.

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: You're one of the few people who has actually examined Terri Schiavo and you're hearing all of these people who are coming on from the sidelines saying, "She's has been misdiagnosed," et cetera. How confident are you in your diagnosis and why?

DR. RONALD CRANFORD, UNIV. OF MN NEUROLOGIST: I'm extremely confident. I think at the time of the trial in 2002 there had been eight neurologists who examined her. And of those eight neurologists total, seven of them said beyond any doubt whatsoever Terri is in a vegetative state. Her CT scan shows severe atrophy or shrinkage of the brain. Her EEG is flat and there's absolutely no doubt that she's been in a permanent vegetative state ever since 1990. There's no doubt whatsoever, Dan.

[Keith in Iowa]

>>>Sick puppy...

Vast Understatement.

[jess35]

Are the black helicopters hovering over your house as well? Quick! run outside and look!

[texasflower]

Are you purposely ignoring #16

No. I addressed it already. Do you have something you would like to say to me?

[Eagles6]

Y'all belong together. Hate to see what the kids do when you forget where you parked the car at wallyworld or you can't make it to the bathroom.

[northernlightsII]

Quackwatch is run by a psychiatrist .His qualifications to judge all specialties of medicine seem rather thin,especially given the prevalence of quackeries in his own field.

[Eagles6]

No game. The stakes are too high.

[GloriaJane]

Oh I pray they win!

[northernlightsII]

Inteweresting viewpoint then why should anybody pay any attention to what you have to say since you seem to have a very selective information process.

[tophat9000]

Left: CT scan of a normal 25 year old; Right, Terri Schiavo's most recent scan

Can you give us your idea of the percent of living brain loss you assume she lost her rights as a human being to live...

I would say at 100% living brain loss and the brain can no longer support her body function's...

I do not assume she will get better...what I do assume is what is left is still a human being and minimal natural human rights still exist...

I do this as much for me as I do others as I do not want the state or others rating peoples humanity and there rights by percent...

While in life all men are not equal in a logical physical sense's... in the U.S. all men are consider equal before the law to protect all... you are not a percent (any more) a human being ...you are or are not a human being

Can you give us a percent of brain loss and or IQ point a human being longer is a human being?

[texasflower]

Dark Knight, I didn't make any comments about this doctor.

Just about the appearance of the scan itself.

Have you read the links on Trinity_Tx's homepage? It has all sorts of information that I haven't seen anywhere else.

It addresses the guardianship issues as well as the complete timeline of events, court transcripts etc.

It's worth the time to read them.

I haven't given my own opinion of what should be done in this case. That's deliberate.

This is such an emotional thing for everyone, but this sort of thing happens every single day. It's not a new issue. We only know about this one because of the family conflicts.

[Southack]

"Well, I know that this interview will probably not change anyone's mind at this point about the Schiavo case, but I thought that it would be of interest to those FreeRepublic patrons who would like the opinon of a respected neurologist."

If this were a purely *medical* case, a respected neurologist would be a good source, but this is a moral and legal case as well as medical.

In Terri's case, her parents want to take care of her themselves; her husband doesn't want to take care of her, and doctors (for the most part) don't want to continue treatment.

The obvious solution to make all of the above happy is for the doctors and husband to step aside and let her parents care for her.

That the husband and the courts are actively *preventing* the girl's parents from feeding and hydrating her, however, goes far beyond the pale.

From a coping viewpoint alone, the parents should be permitted to care for their daughter, all other issues and points aside.

...And for *that* perspective, a respected neurologist adds little or nothing.

[Eagles6]

Depends on whether he was a "Fundamentalist Christian".

[texasflower]

You are the one who said "lets play".

Oh and that is TEXAS, not tejas.

[free_at_jsl.com]

I don't agree.
The scans you are comparing are a 2d slice of a 3d brain. How do we know they are both at the same point on the Z axis?
Even if there is significant brain damage, there is doubt about her wishes (her best friend's testimony conflicts with her husband's).
Regardless of the above, what is the harm in letting her parents care for her? They have offered to take over all expenses and let Michael keep the cash awarded to him for her care.
I cannot believe that the ILLEGAL order from the judge (prohibiting any food or water vs. a feeding tube) is being allowed to stand. Many people have been arrested while trying to give her a drink. This has nothing to do with a feeding tube!

[free_at_jsl.com]

I don't agree.
The scans you are comparing are a 2d slice of a 3d brain. How do we know they are both at the same point on the Z axis?
Even if there is significant brain damage, there is doubt about her wishes (her best friend's testimony conflicts with her husband's).
Regardless of the above, what is the harm in letting her parents care for her? They have offered to take over all expenses and let Michael keep the cash awarded to him for her care.
I cannot believe that the ILLEGAL order from the judge (prohibiting any food or water vs. a feeding tube) is being allowed to stand. Many people have been arrested while trying to give her a drink. This has nothing to do with a feeding tube!

[Cruising Speed]

Well, it doesn't change my mind because this case doesn't revolve around this issue. It revolves around Mr. Schiavo's assertion that Terri wants to die. Without that, the rule of law says she lives. Judge Greer found Mr. Schiavo to be credible but lots of people do not, including yours truly.

Mr. Schaivo sued for 51 years of care for Terri and, immediately after winning $700,000 for this purpose, suddenly remembered that Terri wants to die. He would inherit the remainder which means he has a clear conflict of interest.

[supercat]

Oh, I guess you haven't heard. Terri's EEGs were ALL flatlined for her higher brain functions. She's got just enough brain cells left in her brain stem to operate the heart and lungs

I've worked enough with electronic medical diagnostic equipment to know that movement artifacts can play havoc with trying to get good readings. Terri's behaviors, even if merely "reflexive", are inconsistent with a flatline EEG. Dr. Hammesfahr in an interview offered an explanation for the flatline EEG which seems plausible and consistent with my experience (Terri was fidgety, and motion artifacts were swamping everything else; turning down the gain to eliminate the motion artifacts eliminated everything else).

Any doctor who would accept a 'flatline' EEG from someone who moans when prodded ignores one of the major rules of medical diagnostic equipment: if the equipment's indications contradict clinical observations, don't trust the equipment.

[texasflower]

I'm not forcing anyone to pay attention to what I have to say, but plenty of people are posting to me for some reason.

Just ignore me sugar.

[chuckles]

Eyewitness's testified under oath that she follows them around and talks to them and is able to swallow on her own. The video clearly shows her following the balloon.

The reality is, there are many activists that want her dead, ergo they spin their way, we spin ours. One nurse said Terri used to sit at the nurse's station and greet the passers by. I can go through any nursing home and find 10 more worse than Terri. This all boils down to guardianship, since Terri had no living will. When Mikey took a concubine, he lost his spousal rights. Do you believe Terri wants an adulterer to decide her fate. We have gotten very technical here arguing over what the word "is" is,(remember that?). Well technically, Mikey is an adulterer and a bigamist. It would be interesting to see if he has ever claimed the new woman as his wife. Thats bigamy. Common law says you must claim her as wife in public. I wonder how many deductions he shows,etc?

[texasflower]

As I have said repeatedly, I have not made any sort of diagnosis. I just said the brain shows significant atrophy.

And it does.

My personal opinion of what should happen here is my business. I am deliberately keeping it off the threads.

You don't know what I think.