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Why Terri's Parents Lost: the Real Story
Newsmax.com | 03-29-05 | Newsmax.com

Posted on 03/28/2005 7:48:32 PM PST by Theodore R.

Schindlers Were Outgunned by Lawyers Early

In case you were wondering, with so many facts in dispute about the Terri Schiavo case, the answer is relatively clear: The Schindlers, well-intentioned as they have been, were outgunned in the early legal fight that sealed their daughter's fate.

The early legal maneuvering created "facts" that are now beyond dispute in higher courts. One is the unbelievable claim by Michael Schiavo that Terri wanted to be starved and dehydrated to death.

One Florida attorney told the story on Steve Sailer's Web blog (www.isteve.com).

Here's what the lawyer wrote:

"I have been following the case for years. Something that interests me about the Terri Schiavo case, and that doesn't seem to have gotten much media attention: The whole case rests on the fact that the Schindlers (Terri's parents) were totally outlawyered by the husband (Michael Schiavo) at the trial court level.

"This happened because, in addition to getting a $750K judgment for Terri's medical care, Michael Schiavo individually got a $300K award of damages for loss of consortium, which gave him the money to hire a top-notch lawyer to represent him on the right-to-die claim. He hired George Felos, who specializes in this area and litigated one of the landmark right-to-die cases in Florida in the early '90s.

"By contrast, the Schindlers had trouble even finding a lawyer who would take their case since there was no money in it. Finally they found an inexperienced lawyer who agreed to take it partly out of sympathy for them, but she had almost no resources to work with and no experience in this area of the law. She didn't even depose Michael Schiavo's siblings, who were key witnesses at the trial that decided whether Terri would have wanted to be kept alive. Not surprisingly, Felos steamrollered her.

"The parents obviously had no idea what they were up against until it was too late. It was only after the trial that they started going around to religious and right-to-life groups to tell their story. These organizations were very supportive, but by that point their options were already limited because the trial judge had entered a judgment finding that Terri Schiavo would not have wanted to live.

"This fact is of crucial importance -- and it's one often not fully appreciated by the media, who like to focus on the drama of cases going to the big, powerful appeals courts: Once a trial court enters a judgment into the record, that judgment's findings become THE FACTS of the case, and can only be overturned if the fact finder (in this case, the judge) acted capriciously (i.e., reached a conclusion that had essentially no basis in fact).

"In this case, the trial judge simply chose to believe Michael Schiavo's version of the facts over the Schindlers'. Since there was evidence to support his conclusion (in the form of testimony from Michael Schiavo's siblings), it became nearly impossible for the Schindlers to overturn it. The judges who considered the case after the trial-level proceeding could make decisions only on narrow questions of law. They had no room to ask, "Hey, wait a minute, would she really want to die?" That "fact" had already been decided.

"In essence, the finding that Terri Schiavo would want to die came down to the subjective opinion of one overworked trial judge who was confronted by a very sharp, experienced right-to-die attorney on one side and a young, quasi-pro bono lawyer on the other.

"Nothing unusual about this, of course. It's the kind of thing that happens all the time. But it's an interesting point to keep in mind when you read that the Schiavo case has been litigated for years and has been reviewed by dozens of judges ... yadda yadda yadda.

"By the way, I'm guessing that George Felos is probably quite happy to work the Schiavo case for free at this point since it's making him one of the most famous right-to-kill -- I mean right-to-die -- lawyers in the country. His BlackBerry has probably melted down by now, what with all the messages from the hurry-up-and-die adult children you've been blogging about."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: georgejfelos; lawyers; schiavo; schindlers
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To: Theodore R.; greccogirl; MeekOneGOP; PhilDragoo; Happy2BMe; potlatch; ntnychik; Smartass; ...


121 posted on 03/29/2005 12:31:49 AM PST by devolve (WWII : http://pro.lookingat.us/RealHeros.html James Bond - 007 : http://pro.lookingat.us/007.5.html)
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To: Alia
I'd like to know if any of her body organs are being purchased and by whom; and are these being purchased and who gets the money.

I believe it is illegal to sell organs .. but they can be donated

But I don't think her organs would any good after her death since she's being dehydrated to death

122 posted on 03/29/2005 12:32:10 AM PST by Mo1
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To: atomicpossum

Good post


123 posted on 03/29/2005 12:35:15 AM PST by Mo1
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To: null and void
Bingo. Why don't more people get it?

Because they don't want to

124 posted on 03/29/2005 12:36:29 AM PST by Mo1
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To: little jeremiah
"What life haters... could it be they hate the Author of all life?"

Proverbs 8:36
but the one who sins against me harms himself
all who hate me love death.

God wrote the Book.
Some of us read it.
Now we get to watch the movie.

(Playing at a theater right in front of you).
125 posted on 03/29/2005 12:43:16 AM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: calico44
You didn't ask me, but.....it seems to me the fact that this Judge, in determining that she would not want to be kept alive artificially, not only ordered a feeding tube removed, but also ORDERED that she not be allowed food or liquid naturally (by mouth) is the key. It;s one thing to pull the plug on life support, but another to deny an innocent human being food and water by mouth and mandate that person to die!

Scary ain't it?

126 posted on 03/29/2005 12:47:49 AM PST by Mo1
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To: DaveTesla

They can't create, but they can try to destroy what God has created.

Pure, unadulterated, rebellious envy.


127 posted on 03/29/2005 12:49:23 AM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it)
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To: Torie; MHGinTN
Greta is a scientology member? Can you verify that?

Greta Van Susteren and her husband, John Coale, rub shoulders with notables in the nation's capital, they involve themselves in controversial legal cases, they like Florida living. But you rarely hear them speak of their religion, Scientology.

128 posted on 03/29/2005 1:03:28 AM PST by Mo1
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To: EDINVA

Legitimate or intelligent was the key word here..morbid


129 posted on 03/29/2005 3:51:50 AM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: Theodore R.

Added to Terri Bookmark Mountain. Good find. FReegards....


130 posted on 03/29/2005 5:20:22 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: Theodore R.; tallhappy
Yes, the Schindlers were outgunned by the well-heeled death industry -- Felos, "Dr." Cranford, et al.

(Btw, did anybody see "Dr." Cranford blow his gasket on the Joe Scarborough show last night? Calling lovely reporter Lisa Daniels "stupid" because she dared to ask questions Cranford didn't like?!)

Other Monday-morning-lawyering I've heard is that the Schindler's lawyers should've pursued a divorce case against Michael Schiavo much earlier and more aggressively.

131 posted on 03/29/2005 5:32:47 AM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: null and void
"That" (that it's illegal to buy or sell human organs) "will change."

IMO, probably not –this it is one of the very few “social” issues at the where most of the “left” and “right” are in agreement: the “left” most often because of fears that the less well off (including citizens of other countries) will be pressured to sell organs for the benefit of the more affluent, the “right” mostly because of fear that such sales will “devalue the dignity of human life” and/or that such sales violate basic Christian doctrines or values.

The only people I’m aware of that argue in favor of such sales are 1) “Properterian” libertarians who believe that such limitation violate a body owner's "property rights” and argue we ought to have the right to use our bodies as we wish, and 2) some in the medical profession who believe this would increase the supply of organs available for donation (and latter are almost always talking only about payment for organs obtained after death due to other causes).
132 posted on 03/29/2005 5:36:57 AM PST by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros on the end.)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas

Even if its under the guise of "Scientific Research"? In re selling organs? I would think the study of Terri's brain would be a much sought after item -- effects of dehydration, starving; plus possibly in re the onset of her current condition. Perhaps the "autopsy" Mr. Schiavo is demanding aims to do just this; perhaps not. This is my real question. Why is he demanding an autopsy? What will be requested for study in that autopsy?


133 posted on 03/29/2005 6:54:19 AM PST by Alia
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To: Ann Archy; gnan4d; null and void; churchillbuff; TapTap; Theodore R.

As none of you addressed the point - I take it none of you can be counted on to defend the country as that usually means innocent people die somewhere.

All of you make the point that Terri is pleading for her life. She's not. To say she is to make a leap in logic and fact to suit your argument. Come on. This has been going on for years. Why is it that she's had nothing to utter about the matter but all of a sudden the family claims "oh yes, she said x, she said y." They'll say anything, that's why.

If you all were to be taken for your word I suspect a living will wouldn't really matter either because that would be suicide, wouldn't it? Assisted suicide is off limits too in your worldview so no one could pull a plug without you damning them to hell.

And, since all of you seem to think my reference to costs makes me a Nazi (how conveniently and easily you slip into the insunuation that conservatives are Nazis, gee, where have I heard that before?) . . . you miss one convenient fact. This woman's lawful husband is making the call. In this case that creates problems because of the dispute within her family. I go back to the point of putting it down in writing. She didn't.

Is Michael's decision within the realm of a reasonable and compassionate response to the situation? Absolutely.

They say you can tell a man by the company he keeps. Well, you guys have the kook from Kansas and Jesse Jackson leading your circus over poor Terri's body. That should tell you something. The biggest grandstanders our country has to offer are leading you over the cliff of reason.


134 posted on 03/29/2005 7:02:35 AM PST by hoyaloya
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To: hoyaloya
YMMV

(Your Mileage May Vary)
135 posted on 03/29/2005 7:08:48 AM PST by null and void (innocent, incapacitated, inconvenient, and insured - a lethal combination for Terri...)
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To: EDINVA
I've written already to others who have graciously responded -- I should have been more specific -- I did not at all think her organs would be usable for another human -- but that her organs perhaps might be "usable" for scientific research. I don't trust the people involved with this mess concerning Terri. I can very well see a "generic" autopsy -- meaning, blah de blah de blah.. but while another report goes elsewhere and money is exchanged.

I just don't trust People who push U-health, Euthansia, and have secret medical meetings while sitting in the highest offices in the land.

Liberals are always screaming about the evil Pharmaceutical industry and "connections" to Republicans. Leftists are fully unaware that the real medical-time-woofers are on their own side of the political aisle, and like to experiment on real people, and without their "genuinely cognizant" consent or knowledge. (Oh, those forms that get signed!) Really uncute. But don't dare experiment on Animals! Heavens, no. And the left fell for this BS so long ago. I remember the attacks on the animal labs at UC Davis, CA. Never forgot.

136 posted on 03/29/2005 7:09:04 AM PST by Alia
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To: churchillbuff

All of this evidence was in the record that the federal judge (Whittemore) was to review _de novo_. _He_ claimed that they did not adequately make the case for a de novo review, but that's his CYA effort. If Judge Whittemore had done what Congresss asked him to do, all the nurse affidavits, all the counter-Michael testimony that _was already introduced_ in the 2000-2003 court proceedings but simply brushed aside by Greer, would have been taken seriously. Judge Whittemoree punted. Terri's death is his fault, Greer's fault, Felos's fault. Let's keep focused.

It bothers me considerably that, in our justified anger and frustration at the sheer criminality of what has been done to Terri Schiavo we lash out at our own side, at Jeb Bush, at the Schindler lawyers.

Look, a great evil was done by George Greer, Michael Schiavo, George Felos. The article to which this thread responds point that out--the Schindlers were outlawyered by evil people, dishonest people, liars. Place the blame there, where it belongs so that we can keep our focus on what needs to be done to change things.

Blaming the victim only permits the perps to walk free and do it again. Yes, we are frustrated, yes, we are tempted to say, "if only so and so had done this and this." Perhaps, yes, it might have made a difference. But the real villains here are Greer, Felos and the MSM, the RINOs in the legislatures etc. Let's keep the drumbeat there, where it belongs



137 posted on 03/29/2005 7:19:28 AM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: Alia
"What will be requested for study in that autopsy?"

As I understand it from news reports, the autopsy will be conducted by the corner's office. Such Autopsies are conducted according to the corner's protocol, which specifies a complete procedure for an autopsy, which is followed in every case. Likely, given high profile of this case, it will be conducted by senior staff members, or perhaps personally by the "Chief Medical Examiner" (or whatever the tile is in this particular corner's office.)

Unless the autopsy determines that criminal activity may have been a contributing cause of death, the state usually is not empowered to retain any part of the body. (One exception would be fluid or tissue samples which had been sent out of analysis, and might be retained by the organization performing the tests for legally mandated quality control studies or similar purposes.)

At that point, all or part of the body could be the subject of additional tests by other organizations, but no part of the body could be "sold" or used for commercial purposes.

Given that PVS is a clinical diagnosis, it's unlikely that whatever the result of the autopsy it could conclusively settle the question of mental capacity prior to death.
138 posted on 03/29/2005 7:50:36 AM PST by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros on the end.)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas

Thank you very much for sharing this information with me.


139 posted on 03/29/2005 7:53:44 AM PST by Alia
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To: hoyaloya

I don't think you meant to include me in your response, because nothing of what you said addresses anything I said.

Reading your post, it sounds like you are making generalizations (you all make the point, you all think, damning to hell, etc) It also sounds like you are repeating what the talking heads are saying - this has been going on for years - so does that make it right? Or its compassionate - how?

You might think I would never want to live that way or most people would not want to, but do you really know? Did Christopher Reeve want to live that way- probably not, but he still wanted to live - its called being human - we want to live - its in our nature. People that want to die are people who are suffering physically or mentally. Terry is not.

And like I said, when the government (court) steps in and uses hearsay as a fact, and then decides on the side of death, we are in trouble.


140 posted on 03/29/2005 8:09:02 AM PST by gnan4d
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