Posted on 03/28/2005 6:48:57 PM PST by Keyes2000mt
Governor Jeb Bush, R-Florida, was pained to say he had done all he could do legally. Bush said he wouldn't 'break the law' to save Terry Schiavo. Bush wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't because he is just obeying orders. The Governor of Florida follows orders from a Pinellas County Circuit judge. In matters of life and death. In issues of cruel and unusual punishment. When due process is denied.
The Constitution of Florida says The People are sovereign — like kings. The People of Florida vest the supreme executive authority in a governor in their constitution. Unless, apparently, a judge orders otherwise. In fact a Circuit Judge, whose limited jurisdiction is listed in the Florida constitution can order every administrative and police official across the state of Florida to 'freeze, boy. Do as I order, hear?' So, when a child takes water to a starving, dehydrated disabled woman, the kid is arrested by deputies. They're just following orders.
Good Germans followed judges and other officials in obeying the law of the land 60 years ago. Good Americans today, it appears, also obey the law of the land. The law of the land is whatever a black robed priest-king, called judge, says it is. Ask Gov. Bush where in the Florida Code a Circuit judge can deny a woman food and water unto death. Yet, clearly, it's a violation of Chapter 825 of the Florida Criminal Code to abuse and neglect a disabled person, Terry Schiavo, by starvation.
The Florida Constitution states The People have the God-given right to life for all individuals — regardless of disability. Unless an elected lawyer in costume, a judge, says the law of the land is to kill a brain-damaged woman slowly. The abuse of a disabled person by failing to provide nutrition is a felony in Florida. Unless, of course, a judge says 'follow my orders' and won't permit her family to take a picture of her suffering.
Lawful Germans just followed the orders of Nazi Human Secularists. Loyal Russian, Chinese, North Korean, Eastern European, Cambodian, and Vietnamese carried out the orders of Communist Human Secularists. Americans serve Liberal Human Secularism if a judge orders. If a judge ordered a black man lynched, it would be the law of the land.
Why not? Gov. Bush would be so sorry, really, but couldn't do anything if a judge gave an order. But, a judge would never do such a thing, right? The difference between lynching and abortion is proportion and status. One black man dies or 40 million babies die (so far) on the word and writ of robed masters. No one in the executive or legislature used their constitutional powers. Everyone just followed orders.
Abortion was a state medical-legal issue, but five judges out of nine on the U.S. Supreme Court made up a right to privacy. It's written in the U.S. Constitution like the requirement to starve Terry Schiavo to death is in the Florida Constitution and Code. Look and see.
March 28th, 2005 we will see if the U.S. Congress which ordered a subpoena for Terry Schiavo and a new Federal judicial review of her case will follow the orders of Pinellas County Circuit judge. George Greer dismissed the subpoena, backed by the U.S. Code — it's the law, with a wave of his hand. Just as he denied Terry Schiavo her freedom of religion to receive communion, until her adulterous husband — and Greer's campaign contributor — relented for Easter. The Federal judges ignored the law the U.S. Congress passed and the President of the U.S. signed for new look at the case. They rule.
The elected Federal Legislature and Executive is having their bluff called. Attorney General Janet Reno sent in armed men against a Florida court order to take Elian Gonzales from his dead mother's wishes and loving family to return the child to communist slavery in Cuba. Perhaps, Republicans in power just posture.
Reasonable people and unreasonable people, sometimes known as lawyers, disagree on Gov. Bush using his executive power. They fear a Constitutional crisis. Too late. Judge Greer started the crisis, this Dred Scot, with his judicial tyranny. The judge would hold the Governor in contempt. It would take an Andrew Jackson or Abraham Lincoln to be so bold. But, Jeb Bush, nice guy that he is, well-meaning man, and good Catholic, is no 'Old Hickory' and no "Honest Abe'. Jeb, like every defendant at Nuremburg save one, pleads 'not guilty' because he is just following orders.
"You're attacking the wrong people. I'm not sure why you can't understand that."
one could logically retort the same thing back at you.
why are you attacking people that are upset at the government not doing enough? You guys have slimed upset conservatives all night long with all sorts of nasty crap...
"The next step beyond what he's already done is armed revolution."
having worked for the government - this statement is a bit over-the-top. there are lots of methods besides armed confrontation to resolve this issue. especially when so many irregularities exist within what the courts have done already - from the first judge illegally proceeding when he should have recused himself, ad nauseum...
"Jeb Bush isn't a general."
that's right, but he is a governer with the power to keep criminals on death row alive (pardon them)...
my question is: why are you guys so sycophantically trying to protect (or be apologists for) the Bushes when they don't need your help - people like Terri does?
moral dilemmas don't go away - if you want to protect Jeb, then don't advocate for another "Bay of Pigs" kind of situation.
Focus your venom on the judges, and the people who put them in power. They are the ones who are causing this. Bush has no more power to stop this than you do.
Yes, I am angry that fellow conservatives are shooting at the wrong people. Why shouldn't I be? How do you think we got to this situation? Because the conservative cause is more like a rabble than an effective fighting force. And reading the posts on this thread, I'd say that's being charitable.
The Governor cannot 'pardon' Terri because she is NOT a criminal. There is no legal recourse for him to do so.
And this is not a question of 'sycophant' behavior (you still haven't looked it up, have you? You are misusing the word in your accusations), it is a question of obeying the rule of law, and supporting leadership that honors that law.
If the law is wrong (which it clearly is), then the law needs to be changed.
This is a tragic situation, but the moral mess we are in goes back much farther than this individual case. We need to get at the root of the problem, which is both spiritual and legal, and reform this country and return it to its moral roots. Jeb Bush's circumventing the law is NOT going to solve this crisis.
I am praying that the sacrifice and loss of the Schindler family (if God does not miraculously intervene), will result in a raised awareness in the American people of how firm a grip the culture of death now has on our courts, and the medical profession. Good can come of this horror, if we work to make it so, and pray as we have never prayed before.
I'd say you're right.
ohioWfan said:
Signed on 4 days ago. Long time conservative Republican..........never gonna vote Republican again............yeah right.
in response to my original post, which was (btw, try to find where I said "never gonna vote Republican again!"):
(complete repost)
I have NEVER been mad at President Bush...NEVER.
But I am now. He seems to have lost his pair. Either he lost his pair, or he's just been toooo busy this past week meeting with Vicente Fox about how to bring more illegals across the border.
You know Mike Gallagher just pointed out on his radio show that Bush didn't even find the time in his busy schedule to say ANYTHING AT ALL about this country's 2nd worst school shooting in history in Red Lake, MN!!!! WTF is THAT about? He's the president for god's sake! He is this country's spiritual leader! President Reagan would've been on top of it guaranteed. Oh man I miss him right now.
Look, I'm a conservative and a life-long Republican. I know some folks around here hate to hear any criticism of Pres. Bush, and I'll probably be flamed for this post. But damnit MY President is letting me down. He's selling us off to Mexico, he can't find the time to offer comfort after the 2nd most bloody school massacre in US HISTORY, and he won't step in to save the life of a disabled lady being killed by her estranged husband without due process! What happened to good ol' first term W? That's who I voted for.
As of right now, I don't know that I'll align myself with the Republican party again. I am a die-hard conservative and I always will be. My votes will go to the most conservative on the ballot, but I think my work with GOP is done. I said it on another post but it bears repeating....The cowardice from the oval office is the last straw....Just call me Pat Buchanan.
On that note, I really want a little clarification about this site. Is Free Republic a strictly "Republican" site? I thought this was a safe place for conservatives. Am I wrong? Is there no room for conservatives that don't see a lot of true conservatism from Pres. Bush? Just curious.
Thanks,
another true conservative ex-GOPer,
def_dave7
Ok. Now, did I say I'd never vote Republican again? Nope. I never said that. I said I won't align myself with the GOP. There's a difference. I'll vote for whoever the most conservative candidate may be.
This is one of the most important issues in American history. You may disagree, and that's fine. Be loyal to the party to the end, just as the dems are loyal to their party regardless of the corruption and anti-americanism in their party.
As I said, I've been a Republican nearly all my life (since 1982 at least) and I've passionately supported my party.
I have NEVER been pissed at my party...EVER. Got that? NEVER. NEVER. NE-VER.
This issue of government sanctioned murder of the disabled is an extremely crucial cultural issue and my party's leaders have been cowards.
Call me a DUer if you want. Frankly that's a cop-out because you don't want to deal with the real issues.
Oh, and one more thing, I signed on to Free Republic 4 days ago that's true. But I was here a couple years ago regularly before my computer crashed. Now I'm back because I just purchased a new Dell last week.
Call me a DUer or imply that just because I'm not happy with our President then I must be some whacko liberal if you must, but I demand courage from our political leaders, and Bush HAD courage in his 1st term, but it's now absent, or like I said he's tooooo busy for courage because his schedule is filled with trying to find out new ways to help Mexicans enter our country illegally.
TRUE CONSERVATIVE, ANTI-LIBERAL, PRO-GUN, PRO-LIFE,
def_dave7
ego milao ellenika, syko phantos einei "show a fig"
servile and flattering behavior towards a superior
it appears quite apropos to me irt the bush apologetics
the position that is disingenous is the constant verbiage spewed out on anyone that would dare question what they have done or are doing?
One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests... – Theodore Roosevelt, speech at Osawatomie, Kansas
guess that leaves Terri out
We just think that any law that says it's OK to starve a disabled woman to death is a illegal law and carries no weight. Any court that issues such orders is a rouge court and has on authority. Maybe my feelings are so strong on this because in USMC boot camp, it was pounded into my head that if I ever obeyed an illegal order I would be charged with the crime and found guiltily. But that was back in the old days when the USA was a Christan nation that realized that the authority for all of man's laws are derived from G*ds laws. It is a sorry state of affairs when a US citizens has less rights then an enemy in a combat zone. Believe me if I had starved a POW to death in Vietnam I would still be in jail. Even if I was "Just following orders".
I can understand those horrified at what's happening but arguing that Jeb's hands are tied, I don't believe it but I can understand the argument. Folks that just thinks it cool to do this deed, I don't understand at all.
The fact of the matter is, that President Bush has been more pro-active in the area of the sanctity of life than Reagan ever was, so abandoning him, and the GOP, because he has taken a principled position and chosen to stay within his Constitutional job description, is an irrational response.
And if you want to know what I think of you macho men sitting at your Dell's and accusing a courageous President of lacking courage, scroll back a little way......... (if you don't want to bother........the answer is, not much).
"Wretched indeed is he who thinks nothing of wisdom and discipline; such men's hopes are void, their labours unprofitable; their actions futile." - the Wisdom of Solomon 3:11.
"...the souls of the just are in God's hand, and torment shall not touch them. In the eyes of foolish men they seemed to be dead; their departure was reckoned as defeat, and their going from us as disaster. But they are at peace, for though in the sight of men they may be punished, they have a sure hope of immortality; and after a little chastisement they will receive great blessings, because God has tested them and found them worthy to be his. Like gold in a crucible he put them to the proof, and found them acceptable like an offering burnt whole upon the altar." - Wisdom of Solomon 3:1-7
If love is sustenance, Terri will be forever alive and forever young in many, many of our hearts. And the realization of her cause will occur. Have Faith, good people.
People, do not dishonor Terri Schiavo by unthinkingly heaping venom on the very persons seeking to assist her. The Lord God will determine that.
You are misusing the term. Completely and absolutely.
And limited government conservatives who think that the President should overstep his Constitutional, separation of power boundaries, are being disingenuous. The Constitution gives the Congress power to control the judiciary under Article III, but it does not give the Executive power to overturn a decision made by the Supreme Court.
Place the blame where it lies, and not on the President.
That's the dumbest thing you've said yet. How am I to know when you log off? Did you not post that to me while I was offline?
Let's see.........what did George do, besides signing a (highly controversial) bill to save Terri's life, coming back from Texas so he could sign it in the middle of the night......making strong pro-Terri statements.........??
Wow! Risky! I notice you didn't answer your own question "what did he do besides?"
If Presidents have the power to overturn Supreme Court decisions, then why didn't Nixon, or Reagan overturn Roe v. Wade?
I have not suggested that the court decision be overturned. The state can, and has the duty to, take custody because of the abusive situation this whole farce of a case has become to Terri.
Why aren't you villifying Reagan for not intervening with the runaway courts with an EO and saving the lives of not just one human life, but the millions of babies who have been slaughtered since he was elected in 1980??
Do you see anyone posting about what happened in 1980? Why aren't you villifying Reagan for unilaterally ending the air traffic controller's strike?
Cut out the Bush bashing, ...
Cut out the demagoguing. The President serves at the pleasure of the people. I'm not pleased. Your understanding is that the President can do nothing here. My understanding is that he can. The Constitution demands it. His Oath of Office binds him to it. The XIVth Amendment spells out the law of the land he must see faithfully executed and is the highest law superceding statute laws and court decisions which aren't laws at all. For whatever reason you have thrown in the towel. Be at peace with that. I'm not.
Yes it is. The fundamental principle at stake is the highest and the manner in which it has been handled is crucial to the kind of precedent it will set. It is pivotal and going back will be harder than turning back Roe v. Wade in part because Roe v Wade will have to go for this to go.
The "right to die" is being solidly established here not the right to make medical decisions. That was already established. This concerns a "right to die" which can be legally held by 2nd and 3rd parties. A legal guardian a doctor or the state, regardless of motive or opposing evidence, may establish that a citizen's "right to die" is paramount to all other rights on the basis of health status and behavior as determined by the state.
This will be my final post, because I have made my point here, and don't wish to continue to butt heads for no possible gain.
The President did what he was Constitutionally permitted to do. The President is not in charge of the State of Florida.
I suggest you re-read what I said about Reagan. I am not villifying Reagan. He did not have the Constitutional power to overturn Roe v. Wade, did he? Millions of babies were slaughtered during his administration........why didn't he do something 'besides' to stop it? (Since you are villifying Bush for this, to be consistent, you should villify Reagan for what he didn't do........I am not doing either).
And I haven't even come close to 'throwing in the towel' but I expect my leaders to obey the law.
We both desperately want Terri to live, and are angry that this has happened. I just believe that by making the President the scapegoat for your anger, you are in danger of never solving the real problem........and that is that this country has embraced a culture of death, and the renegade judiciary is aiding and abetting it.
Keep praying for Terri, her family, for the President and his brother, and for the soul of this nation.
If that is lobbing spitballs then what would you consider an honest straightforward question? How is this any attack on you?
Peace, TigersEye. No more, please.
Pray for Terri and for America.
When the Governor of a state asks for Federal assistance the President has the legal opportunity and Constitutional duty to take charge.
"I'm not sure we can get it done here in Florida," Martinez quoted (Gov.) Bush as saying just after a new Schiavo measure stalled in the Florida Legislature. "Do whatever you can federally."
When a state courts judge defies a Congressional subpoena the Federal Executive Branch has the power to act. When a Federal District Court ignores the plain wording of a Congressional bill signed by the President he has an opening to act.
You can hit and run if you like, I will continue to deflate your hyperbole and myth.
Should send Gov. Arnold to Florida. He'd take care of all those damn girlie men!
Should send Gov. Arnold to Florida. He'd take care of all those damn girlie men!
Feel free to continue to deflate my 'hyperbole' with your own hyper-hyperbole. I'm sure someone will show up to pat you on the back for it.
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