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A Few Points Along the Line Between News and Opinion (NY Times with chutzpah)
NY Times ^ | March 27, 2005 | DANIEL OKRENT

Posted on 03/27/2005 6:12:24 PM PST by neverdem

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1 posted on 03/27/2005 6:12:26 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
But there is, in fact, a permeable membrane not quite separating fact from opinion at The Times...

Yer a permeable membrane.

2 posted on 03/27/2005 6:16:09 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all)
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To: neverdem

And this guy is suppose to be the READERS rep.


3 posted on 03/27/2005 6:16:10 PM PST by marty60
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To: neverdem
I haven't found a soul here who has ever experienced any pressure, or even endured a suggestion, to conform to the opinions expressed on the editorial page.

No, but they didn't hire you because you were a conservative, right wing republican either, did they?

4 posted on 03/27/2005 6:16:21 PM PST by usgator
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To: marty60
Translation: Our editorialsts and reporters don't associate with one another, but we restrict our hiring in either group to committed liberals. Occasionally, the collective groups might disagree on a particular issue, but usually the reporters will endorse (thinly veiled, of course) the same position as the editorialists. We don't claim to understand conservatism, although we occasionally send a reporter or two to dodge the rednecks down South if there's a compellingly pro-liberal story to be found.
5 posted on 03/27/2005 6:25:19 PM PST by dufekin (United States of America: a judicial tyranny, not a federal republic)
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To: dufekin

VERY good.


7 posted on 03/27/2005 6:28:57 PM PST by marty60
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To: usgator

Exactly. Like so many media organizations, they carefully select their staff to ensure the party line is followed meticulously.


8 posted on 03/27/2005 6:30:18 PM PST by Aussie Dasher (Stop Hillary - PEGGY NOONAN '08)
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To: neverdem

They just don't get it yet.


9 posted on 03/27/2005 6:49:27 PM PST by Blue Screen of Death (/i)
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To: neverdem
I've had a few dealings with Okrent. I'm inclined to believe that he is blind as a bat, rather than crooked as a dog's hind leg. The political coverage of the Times is biased hard left. But that is NOT because there are instructions passed down from Punch to every copyboy.

Instead, as Okrent almost notices near the end of the piece, it is the hiring practices of the Times which are at fault. If a business hires nothing but vegetarians, eventually hamburgers will disappear from the lunch line. There is no surprise here. Okrent is just chasing a straw man.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Terri Schiavo, Requiesat in Pacem"

10 posted on 03/27/2005 6:52:20 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (Proud to be a FORMER member of the Bar of the US Supreme Court since July, 2004.)
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To: neverdem

DANIEL OKRENT receives his salary and perks from the publisher of The New York Times, not from readers. His first loyalties are, therefore, to the publisher.

I have yet to see a SINGLE INSTANCE in which Okrent has responded to reader complaints by correcting a story. Maybe he has corrected a few minor points that I missed. But he has stonewalled in response to every important complaint.


11 posted on 03/27/2005 6:53:29 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: neverdem
I thought about posting this myself. I disagree with Okrent some of the time, but I still like his columns.

This one has some bad points. But I like the way he seems to say that in the future, the Times will have more opinion pieces that are labeled "opinion" or "commentary." No one really thinks the Times will stop being liberal -- I think we'd just like to see them be honest about being liberal.
12 posted on 03/27/2005 7:01:56 PM PST by 68skylark
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To: Whiskey Sierra
But it occurs to me that you could start a competing paper and hire who you like. What is stopping that?

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a valid point, or if you're just trying to be argumentative.

In fact, lots of people are starting competing news outlets -- newspapers, magazines, talk radio, blogs, Internet news forums like FR. And many are being very successful. The free market is working just fine.

13 posted on 03/27/2005 7:06:32 PM PST by 68skylark
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To: neverdem

Well anyway, he admitted that everybody at the Times is a lying, biased, left-wing RAT. That's what I heard him say, at least.


14 posted on 03/27/2005 7:09:22 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: Congressman Billybob
I agree with your comments 100%.

My own pet peeve with the Times is their relentless, aggressive, hostile attitude toward the U.S. military. I don't understand where that comes from, other than from the childish bias of the people they hire to write and edit the paper.

15 posted on 03/27/2005 7:10:53 PM PST by 68skylark
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To: neverdem

"ONE of the more persistent criticisms of The Times comes from those who believe the news pages are the designated disseminator of views passed down from the Olympus that is the editorial page. If there's anyone among the 1,200 newsroom employees of The Times who believes this to be true, I've failed as a reporter: in 16 months, I haven't found a soul here who has ever experienced any pressure, or even endured a suggestion, to conform to the opinions expressed on the editorial page.

Hold your hoots."

It's irrelevent if they take 'orders' from the editorial page or not ... it is sufficient that they (a) share the editorial positions and (b) feel empowered to insert their views consciously or unconsciously in the 'news' reporting.

Simply ask those 1500 reporters, how many voted for Bush?
If they are not 52% Bush supporters, there is the problem in a nutshell. The New York Times lack ideological diversity. They are INCAPABLE OF AVOIDING BIAS when the newsrooms are pervasively liberal, since news selection, wording of articles, etc. are inherently subjective. It's the "liberal media" because most of those in the newsroom are in fact liberals.


16 posted on 03/27/2005 7:17:15 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: neverdem
If you don't want to believe this, feel free to be wrong.

I don't believe it, and I'm not wrong.

I see the author of this puff piece is still stuck in "if I say it's true, it's true" mode.

18 posted on 03/27/2005 7:39:59 PM PST by Col Freeper
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To: Whiskey Sierra
.... just wondering what his complaint really is.

Welcome to FR.

I'm sure the other poster will let you know in due time.

19 posted on 03/27/2005 7:47:08 PM PST by Col Freeper
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To: neverdem
Or check out the different ways the two departments have treated Condoleezza Rice ...

That's a real good example, Mr. Okrent. One department has treated Dr. Rice like an incompetent, war-mongering Aunt Jemima who is nothing more than racial window dressing for the Bush Administration. The other department has treated her like some perverted slut with a stiletto and leather fetish who's probably sleeping with the President. There's a big difference there, all right.

</rolling eyes in total disgust>

20 posted on 03/27/2005 7:50:42 PM PST by CFC__VRWC
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