Jews and Jesus

Townhall ^ | March 24, 2005 | Marvin Olasky

[Crackingham]

Passover and Easter are upon us, and so is a book with a fascinating title and audacious subtitle: David Klinghoffer's "Why the Jews Rejected Jesus: The Turning Point in Western History" (Doubleday, 2005).

On the title's crucial theological point: Klinghoffer, an orthodox Jew, rightly takes to task the "well-meaning Christian" seeking to improve Jewish-Christian relations by saying that Jesus' teaching was very close to that of the rabbis of the time. He also jumps past "New Perspective on Paul" theologians who do not find "substantial points of disagreement between Jesus and his contemporaries."

Both groups err, the author notes, by not taking into full account the doctrine of the "oral Torah" that was sweeping through Judaism 2,000 years ago: "What Jesus rejected was the oral Torah that explains the written Torah. Essential to rabbinic Judaism, this concept of an oral Torah recognizes the Pentateuch as a cryptic document, a coded text. It posits that the Bible's first five books were revealed to Moses along with a key to unlock the code." That key was purportedly passed on orally throughout the generations.

Christians today learn that the New Testament explains certain previously mysterious Old Testament passages; proponents of the "oral Torah" (written down as the Talmud) claimed the same for their teaching. Jesus said, in essence, sola scriptura, the Bible alone: He allowed his followers to pluck grain on the Sabbath, which was perfectly fine according to the Bible but wrong according to the code. The code said that Jews should not wash their faces on fast days, but Jesus taught the opposite.

As Klinghoffer notes, "For Jesus, oral Torah was a manmade accretion without transcendent authority. He tells a group of Pharisees, 'So for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.' ... This explains why he felt it was appropriate to teach solely on his own authority, rather than by citing previous sages." Some Christians today believe they have figured out the Bible's secret code. Some Jews 2,000 years ago felt the same way, but Jesus flatly told them that there was no code: Just read and pray.

The author has many other valuable insights. For example, he writes: "The oral Torah values sociability and thus calls upon the individual to pray in company with a minimum of 10 men (a minyan, or quorum). Jesus advised his followers, 'When you pray,' to pray by yourself, 'in secret.'" Christianity values community worship but emphasizes the role of the individual, and much of Western culture emerges from that emphasis.

Klinghoffer thus explains well "why the Jews rejected Jesus." But what about his subtitle, "the turning point in Western history"? He argues that if more Jews had embraced Jesus, believers would have stayed within Judaism and continued to emphasize circumcision and kosher food rules. They would have required abstaining from sex for a week after menstruation, and so on: "The Jesus movement might have remained a Jewish sect. ... Christianity would not have spread wildly across the Roman Empire and later across Europe, as it did."

[Hand em their arse]

It's a little known fact Nawrmy, that uuhh, he is also apparently the ghost writer of the smash hit "Drop kick me Jesus, through the goal posts of life..."

[ladyL]

As a Believer who is trying to sort out Biblical truth such as keeping the Sabbath, keeping the Biblical feasts etc. from man made doctrines and traditions I am constantly challenged in my faith on a day to day basis. I find it quite an exciting journey in my relationship with our Messiah. Since this is a specific call of God on my life, I have depended on Him to lead, guide and direct me on this path back to His Truths. I believe He is calling all Believers into this journey now. This is where I know His Grace covers my ignorance because He knows in my heart I am trying to be obedient and walk in His ways not mans.

It has actually been fresh manna that has strengthened my faith and has made sense out of the nonsense I saw in the church. There are literally hundreds of thousands of Believers who are on this walk but it is still out of the comfort zone that traditional Christianity offered. Maybe someday the church will embrace these truths then all of us who are living in tents out on the desert can rebuild the fallen tabernacle of David and worship together.

[hosepipe]

[ On the title's crucial theological point: Klinghoffer, an orthodox Jew, rightly takes to task the "well-meaning Christian" seeking to improve Jewish-Christian relations by saying that Jesus' teaching was very close to that of the rabbis of the time. ]

Hmmm does he mean the snakes and vipers -or- the whited sepulchers filled with old mens bones.. RABBIS.... Jesus was a bit like Ann Coulter in dealing with those Rabbis.. in new testament "scripture".. Little wonder they did a Howard Dean impression as they tried to undermine his words.. but were throughly dealt with by Jesus as if by a Mark Steyn column... except subtler sometimes but not always.. Jesus was not big on CLERGY... still isn't as I read it, and observe..

Clergy is mostly a profession not a calling.. in my experience.. a human appointment not a spiritual one.. a way to make a living not a way of living.. WHos to separate the wheat from the chaff.?... Not me... I'm a member of a cult of one member.. with only one potentate.. God itself..

[ladyL]

Torah is so misunderstood and demonized by the church. How could God's wonderful instructions about righteous living be so misunderstood by the scholars who have perpetuated this myth. So sad

[djf]

In fact a close reading of the New Testament shows that Jesus broke most, if not all, of the Jewish Rabbinical laws.

He rejected classical Judaism.

[dervish]

Interview with Klinghoffer about this book:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1371648/posts

[ladyL]

Dearest Conservative till I die;
Your position is completely representative of the church member at large. I use to hold that position and I know it well. I was as fundamental, evangelical, church going as the South could produce. Until I had about 4-5 years of studying the Word 24/7 under my newly born again belt.
Then I started "seeing" things in the church I didn't understand. So I went to the Father with question after question. I was persistent and wouldn't let up. One day as I was reading the book of Revelation and I came across the words, "buy from me eyesalve so you can see" I questioned Him again. What do I have that I could use to buy with? His still small voice said, "it will cost you your whole life." That was about 15 yrs. ago. Since then I have been on a journey of faith that has cost me my congregation fellowship, my family traditions, my approval by my fellowmen. It has been very humbling and painful.
But I will tell you that aside from my born again experience this journey has been just as dramatic to my life. I have come to realize that no I don't have to keep the Sabbath, celebrate the Passover or use the Father's true name BUT I GET TO!!! There in lies the difference.

[sasportas]

Looks like you have gotten been sorely mislead somewhere along the way. In earlier posts I made reference to Judaized Christianity as a trend towards apostasy. To illustrate, a little summarization of the historical progression in the early years of Christianity.

1. Acts 2, the inauguration of the church at Pentecost by the Holy Spirit. Only Jews in attendance. The Torah wasn’t the issue, Christ was, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was. Peter’s sermon at Pentecost proved Christ and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit were the fulfilling of prophecy.

2. Acts 10, the inclusion of Gentiles into the church. And, same as Pentecost, it was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that inaugurated it.

3. Acts 15, dissention and disputation arose concerning the Torah, Jews, and the new inclusion of Gentiles. The ministry of Paul to the Gentiles.

4. Paul writes numerous letters (epistles) to churches outside of Israel: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philipi, Thessolonica, etc., wherein he deals extensively with the basic issues of Torah, faith, grace, works. Paul clearly taught that Christianity was freed from the legalistic slavery of Judaism. Christ was the end of the Torah for righteousness to everyone that believed, Rom. 10:4, He totally fulfilled it, in other words.

5. Jews, struggling with these issues, disregarding Paul’s teachings, began to Judaize Christianity. Many going so far as to return to Judaism. Against the backdrop of such backsliding and apostasy, the book of Hebrews was written. Historians refer to the Judaized Churches of this time as the first heretics of Christianity.

I see the controversy of Torah vs Faith resolved by the time of Paul and set forth clearly in his writings. Paul’s writings on these issues is our completed Revelation. When you fight Paul you fight the Revelation of God. Those who desire a pre-Paul form of Judaized Christianity, are fighting the Revelation of God. If you reject Paul’s revelation, you are apostates and heretics.

The chief theme in all of Paul’s epistles was Torah vs Faith, Works vs Grace. Those who can’t seem to understand him and twist his teachings, do so to their own peril.

2 Peter 3
15 …Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Thinkin' Gal]

How could God's wonderful instructions about righteous living be so misunderstood by the scholars who have perpetuated this myth.

Matthew 13:11-16

13 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

The behavior of the 1st century scribes and Pharisees is described in the New Testament - the book read by the church - for a reason.

Acts 28:25-29

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles , and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Luke 13:6-10

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. >BR> 10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted...

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles Jews, and that they will hear it.
And when he had said these words, the Jews Church departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

"Left Behind", indeed.

[Conservative til I die]

People who study history of that period can understand Yeshua story better, than the ones that do not.

Don't worry, we Christians who read the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament can understand the JESUS story quite sufficiently. I don't need to become a Jew to become a Christian.

[Conservative til I die]

I mentioned the pork and shellfish in reference to some people saying we must follow the Jewish holy days, and by extension, the Jewish laws, which would include the dietary laws.

[Conservative til I die]

I mentioned the pork and shellfish in reference to some people saying we must follow the Jewish holy days, and by extension, the Jewish laws, which would include the dietary laws.

[Conservative til I die]

There's nothing wrong with learning more about it, but it should never cloud the bigger picture. THat's all.

[ladyL]

Are you saying that the Northern Kingdom of Israel is still in existance?

[Thinkin' Gal]

Are you saying that the Northern Kingdom of Israel is still in existance?

The nation formed by being gathered out of the nations (besides Judah aka the modern state of Israel) is named in Hebrew, Artzot habrit, meaning the alliance/union (brit, covenant) of lands (states). Its flag is often in flames with Israel's, routinely burned by the Ishmaelites. Even they seem to have a primitive instinct as to the identity of the whole house of Israel.

[ladyL]

I am not advocating anyone become a Jew. First of all we are called to become citizens of Israel, Israelites not Jews, two different peoples. Jews only came from one tribe, the tribe of Judah. The other eleven tribes, as mentioned in the 144,000 are not JEWS they are Israelites.

James 1:1 was written to the 12 TRIBES dispersed throughout the world at that time, gone for at least 700 yrs. yet still written to by James. Jesus told the Apostles they would sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Jerusalem has 12 gates with the name of each tribe over each gate. THESE ARE ALL FUTURE EVENTS. Along with ALL NATIONS coming to Jerusalem to celebrate Sukkot throughout the Millennium. Nowhere is the name church mentioned. Just tribes. Look up church in the Greek, do a study and you will come across some very interesting information.

[Pharmboy]

From what I understand, Luther thought that the Jews would embrace his teachings. When they did not, he turned on them.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Two sticks here:

Masked Palestinian Hamas activists burn Israeli and U.S. flags during a rally marking the anniversary of the killing of Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin, in the West Bank town of Jenin Thursday March 24, 2005. Yassin was killed in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza last year.(AP Photo/Mohammed Ballas)

***

Ezekiel 37:15-20

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

06086 `ets {ates}
from 06095; TWOT - 1670a; n m

AV - tree 162, wood 107, timber 23, stick 14, gallows 8, staff 4,
stock 4, carpenter + 02796 2, branches 1, helve 1, planks 1,
stalks 1; 328

1) tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows
1a) tree, trees
1b) wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax

The Torah is called "Etz Chaim", the Tree of Life. Two sticks rolled together in a scroll:

A branch without Torah is a dead branch.

Genesis 45:25-28

25 And they went up out of Egypt, and came into the land of Canaan unto Jacob their father,
26 And told him, saying, Joseph is yet alive, and he is governor over all the land of Egypt. And Jacob's heart fainted, for he believed them not.
27 And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:
28 And Israel said, It is enough; Joseph my son is yet alive: I will go and see him before I die.

Joseph, chief administrator of the world's superpower of that day. As it is to this day.